Help With Bronica GS-1 Issue

[Punkinhed7]

I was wondering if anyone out there might be able to help me out with a bit of an issue I've run into with one of my GS-1s. I was checking over my spare kit to make sure everything was in order before offering it as part of a trade and it seems I may have screwed up, royally.

I was getting intermittent response trying to dry fire the camera via the multi-exposure lever and may have fiddled with it a bit too much. As a result the mirror is now stuck in the up position, the shutter won't fire and the film advance wont budge (neither with the crank nor speed grip lever). At one point I tried switching lenses -- I can't remember if this was before or after the mirror/shutter/advance got locked -- and now I cannot remove the lens from the body. When I remove the back and look through the camera I can see all the way through the lens though I'm not sure if this is indicative! of the leaf shutter being stuck open or if open is the default state and it only remains closed after making an exposure. The lens appears to be correctly positioned on the body (as judged in comparison to the position of another 100mm lens mounted on a different body) but when I try to depress the lens release button it only moves a little bit and I run into a seemingly significant amount of resistance if I try to push it any further. Not wanting to permanently break anything I haven't pushed it as hard as I can but I'd really like to get the body working again or, at the very least, the lens separated from the body.

I tried installing a fresh alkaline battery and loading a roll of film into the back...still no dice as I cannot engage the film winding mechanism on the body.

I have, however, uncovered a few differences between the working body and the one having issues. The first is that on the problem body the film advance gear (that engages with the one in the film back) is positioned differently in its "slot" than the one on the working body. Specifically, it is situated noticeably higher in and slightly further out of the slot -- maybe this is preventing its engagement with neighboring sprockets? Along with this the interlock pin (I think this is what it is) located just to the left of the film advance gear on the back of the body is behaving differently as well. On the problem body when I press inward on the gear the pin moves inward simultaneously; this doesn't happen on the working body. I am also able to fully depress said pin on the working camera and it will remain in this position until I flip the multi-exposure lever a couple times -- usually twice to get it back to the initial position. On the camera having issues I can only depress the pin about half way and it doesn't stay in that position. However, when I flip the multi-exposure lever on this body the pin retracts along with the film advance gear, but only to the position that I can depress it to normally -- the pin doesn't move at all when I flip the ME lever on the working body. Finally, the LED battery indicator above the focusing screen appears to be only somewhat functioning -- on my working camera the indicators flash for the full duration that I half depress the shutter, whereas on the problem camera the light only flashes once, intermittently and with variable intensity

I've ordered a couple new silver oxide batteries to see if that might help any but, in the meantime, if anyone has any advice that might help, or if you've run into similar issues and found a solution, I'd be incredibly appreciative.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the wall of text -- more information is always better, right?

 

[Punkinhed7]

Update:

I cleaned all the contacts I could see and installed a new Silver Oxide battery. The issue with the LED indicator resolved -- now shows shutter speed, and correct info in AE finder -- however, the camera is still locked up (mirror up, shutter open, cant turn film advance). I'm inclined to think there is an issue with the interlock but as to how to fix it...I'm at a loss. Anyone?

 

[Punkinhed7]

Here are some quick shots I just snapped to (hopefully) better illustrate the differences I am referring to between the bodies. The working camera is on the left. The interlock that I'm talking about is the one just to the left of the film advance gear.

 

[Truzi]

I've a GS-1, but have never really had to trouble-shoot it (beyond user error), so I can't really offer any help. It sounds like it got stuck half-way though something - the differences in the gears and pins you mention may be because the exposure cycle is not complete. (At least I hope this is the case, as it is more hopeful.)

If you did change the lens after it was stuck that could be trouble. Definitely wait till someone else chimes in, you don't want to break anything trying to remedy this.

I was checking my camera, and the web, while you uploaded pictures in the meantime - so I was going to suggest removing the grip - but I see you have done that.

Also, I do remember something about the T setting on the lens itself. Is it possible you accidentally did something there?
Try this manual and see if it might be the T setting (Section 15 (page 21)):
http://www.cameramanuals.org/bronica/bronica_gs-1.pdf

 

[Punkinhed7]

I already checked to make sure that the T setting wasn't engaged on the lens and it wasn't. To be doubly sure I just flipped it to T to see if perhaps that might free anything thing up but still no luck

 

[Punkinhed7]

Also, I'm thinking I probably changed the lens before it got stuck as someone pointed out to me in the Bronica User Group that it is generally impossible to remove the lens with the shutter open. But, then again, maybe not because the only reason I can think of that I would have tried switching lenses is if there already seemed to be a problem...so maybe I just compounded it

 

[Truzi]

I take it the the lens is still stuck on.

When I first got my GS-1 I remember having trouble removing the lens; no stuck shutter, though (it's my first MF camera, not counting an Holga and 127 brownie (if that is considered MF)). I forget what I needed to do to finally get it off gently, but I did learn it was more complex than a 35mm SLR. There was some combination of jiggling levers and buttons and such. I'm inclined to believe your situation is not dire - just annoying. It seems easy for something to apply enough pressure to keep the mechanisms from functioning.

Okay, you probably tried this already, but perhaps put on a back with film (or just backing paper), remove the dark-slide, take off the lens cap, point it at something bright, and hope it completes the cycle. Play with the shutter speeds, make sure the prism is seated properly, try tightening the lens, jiggle the mirror lockup lever, etc.

 

[Punkinhed7]

Truzi, I've tried most of the things you mention and have been using the GS-1 for a number of years with no issues -- getting the lens on and off has never been a problem before. I could try what you suggest about taking the lens cap off with film loaded/dark slide pulled but I can't see any reason this would cause the shutter to complete its cycle...but I suppose wasting one frame is a small price to pay if it miraculously manages to correct the problem. Will report back.

 

[Truzi]

You've likely far more experience with the camera than I do.
I also take it you've searched the web in general?
Perhaps a light rap? (Very light)

 

[craigclu]

I had a similar issue when I first got a GS-1 system. I started a thread but didn't get much assistance:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I eventually sent the body with lens and back attached to Frank Marshman (Camera Wiz) but he was unable to repair it and mentioned some plastic part that he couldn't locate anymore. I recall him saying that he had a couple sitting there, waiting for access to the parts if they could be found. I picked up a couple of bodies since then and everything seems to be working as it should. I never got the initial body functioning correctly, though.

I also posted on the Yahoo Bronica Group, the following:

I've been mainly a lurker in here over the years as an RF645 owner but
always intrigued with the SLR's. I finally popped and bought a GS-1
system off one of the group here. It's condition is very nice but as a
newbie, I'm having a winder issue that I've not been able to solve.

When loaded with film, I'm able to fire off one or two frames, then the
mirror stays up (naturally!) but the winder is stuck in position and
won't cycle. If I remove the film back, the winder and shutter cocking
all seem to work fine again for 1-2 frames. Troubleshooting had me try
the following without success:

1. Same behavior with multiple film backs.
2. Replaced battery with a fresh cell.
3. Same results with and without the speed grip winder.
4. Confirmed correct film loading.
5. Tested with different lenses attached.
6. Mirror lock up and multiple exposure levers are correctly positioned.
7. The film back(s) seem to be turning freely and not binding.

The seller had not experienced this so I'm wondering if I'm doing
something wrong and not realizing it. Any ideas or have you had this
issue before?

I wish I had a nice, quick remedy for you instead of my replacement body answer! At least they're selling for fire sale prices these days....

 

[RedSun]

I recently purchased a SQ-Ai system with the body marked as "parts only." That body has the exact same problem.

The rewind/shutter mechanism won't forward. So the shutter can't be cocked and film can't advance. Then I found the lever of the mirror lockup came loose and the lever is not the original lever. So the mirror lockup was somehow compromised before.

I managed to free the lens. I do not remember exactly how, since Bronica won't allow lens to be removed when the mirror is in up position. This is to protect the film inside not exposed to light.

I tried a few things to move the mirror into place, but it won't. Since this body is for "parts only", I do not want to spend much time with the body. I consider it shot and is for parts only....

It is cheaper to get a working body than get it repaired. I do not think this is a DIY repair job.

 

[Truzi]

I came across Craig's Yahoo posting when looking for information on this for Punkinhed7. I hope it somehow got resolved. If not, deciding it is a parts body can allow one to be more forceful with it.

 

[RedSun]

The fail rate of Bronica gears is low. A lot of that can be attributed to human problem, or misused. But when problem develops, the repair/recover rate is not good. I know it is hard to give up something, but face the reality.

 

[Punkinhed7]

Does anyone know if a service manual for the GS-1 exists? I've been able to find one for the ETRS but no luck for the GS-1. Should I reach out to Tamron?

 

[RedSun]

I've never seen it. But the ETR-Si repair manual is good. The designs are very similar.

Does anyone know if a service manual for the GS-1 exists? I've been able to find one for the ETRS but no luck for the GS-1. Should I reach out to Tamron?

 

[StephenT]

Punkinhed7, did you ever resolve the problem with your GS-1?

 

[craigclu]

Frank Marshman eventually returned the body, unfixed. My memory isn't absolutely clear but I recall him waiting for Jimmy Koh (I think..? -hey. I'm old and barely recall what I had for breakfast) to respond about a potential source for some replacement parts that didn't seem to materialize. It had something to do with completely pressing the pin engagement between the body and the film back.

 

[StephenT]

Hey Craig. I have a GS-1 body that was jammed and couldn't get the lens off. Studied the thing for about an hour (have another GS-1 body for comparision, thankfully) and finally got the lens off.

The mirror is hanging up on the return - I can give it a little help and up it comes. Seems like the innards need a little lube. I've ordered a tiny bottle of NYOIL and will see if a microscopic bit helps some of the moving surfaces. Will probably use just a bit of Naptha first.

I have an ETRSi that would hang up. A teeny bit of sewing machine oil, and I mean TEENY, applied with a toothpick, on a bearing surface fixed it right up. Hopefully I can get the GS-1 operating reliably - I really like the camera.

 

[dennisramos]

Hello to all! Has this ever been resolved? I have the very exact same problem with the same GS-1 right now and I have not found a place and/or person who specialized with Bronicas. Can anybody update on their Bronica issues? Thanks!