Help with a decision

[Ces1um]

I have been doing a lot of my black and white film processing at home lately using new55's mononbath. It's worked well for me, especially the first 4-5 rolls anyways. Lately a new option, albeit expensive, has opened itself up to me and I'm having trouble making a decision. I was hoping perhaps you could throw a fresh perspective on things for me. Something I haven't considered as it were.

A local darkroom has opened up in Halifax, Nova Scotia. You can join but the cost is just shy of $1000 a year. It's fully stocked with chemicals and is available pretty much 24/7. To me that's a reasonable price to ask by the owner, but it's still quite a bit of money. I have no space to build my own darkroom for that yearly fee so that's not an option.

So here's my typical usage history. I previously had access to a darkroom at the local college. I pretty much just used it to develop film. I did print a few pictures as part of the course, and I liked it, but I have storage issues at home so I rarely print anything (maybe 10 photos a year). I know, that last sentence is sacrilegious. The dark room is currently only set up for "wet printing". I got used to using a dry to dry processor at the community college. I'm not sure I want to go back to wet printing. The hours at the local college weren't very accessible to me though so who knows? Maybe I would have printed more/developed more if I could have gotten there easier. I usually shoot about 2 rolls of black and white a month but it's my new years resolution to shoot much more black and white, forgoing colour for a while. I currently have 25 rolls of film ready to go (I got a good deal).

So here's where I'm having trouble making my mind up. The monobath I use has "done the job" but offers no ability to push/pull. I also lack the proper equipment to make sure my solution is always spot on proper temperature-sometimes that affects my negatives but usually doesn't. My current setup is very cramped for space but is usable. Something larger would be much nicer. Plus I'd like to support a fledgling darkroom because I may grow into using a darkroom for much more in the future. All that being said, I'd have to shoot over 50 rolls of film a year and develop them myself to break even on that cost. If I printed more, that becomes a more reasonable price. I could use our local photo lab but they send out all their black and white films. It often takes 3 weeks to get back a roll and the cost is about $20 to develop/scan.

I really would like to support this darkroom but I'm not 100% sure that it makes financial sense and I may be wasting my money. What are your thoughts?

 

[Neal]

Dear Ces1um,

If you can join for less than an entire year it might be more economically feasible. You can find out if you darkroom work enough to spend your disposable income on it.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[Paul Howell]

Unless you are going to print it seems to be a better value to send away to a custom lab.

 

[Ces1um]

Unless you are going to print it seems to be a better value to send away to a custom lab.

yeah, I think you're right. I was hoping someone could convince me to the contrary but it doesn't make sense for me to join.

 

[jvo]

it sounds like your lukewarm about it, at this point. you system is working for you and you think the economics don't work.... unless you start printing tho' you won't see the upside a rental darkroom as well as intangibles - like having other photographers and camaraderie!

i'd think more in terms of can i afford 1k versus the cost/benefit analysis and try it for a year and see what happens. if i could afford the investment, then i'd never wonder, "maybe i shouldda?"

 

[darkroommike]

I have been doing a lot of my black and white film processing at home lately using new55's mononbath. ...

You can join but the cost is just shy of $1000 a year. ...

... darkroom at the local college. I pretty much just used it to develop film. ...

So here's where I'm having trouble making my mind up. The monobath I use has "done the job" but offers no ability to push/pull. I also lack the proper equipment to make sure my solution is always spot on proper temperature-sometimes that affects my negatives but usually doesn't. My current setup is very cramped for space but is usable. Something larger would be much nicer. Plus I'd like to support a fledgling darkroom because I may grow into using a darkroom for much more in the future. All that being said, I'd have to shoot over 50 rolls of film a year and develop them myself to break even on that cost. If I printed more, that becomes a more reasonable price. I could use our local photo lab but they send out all their black and white films. It often takes 3 weeks to get back a roll and the cost is about $20 to develop/scan.

I really would like to support this darkroom but I'm not 100% sure that it makes financial sense and I may be wasting my money. What are your thoughts?

• I teach at a local community college and we restrict darkroom access to the hours that the classes meet and to currently enrolled students.
• If you can process at home using New55Mono you can process at home using a conventional developer and fixer which will permit push and pull processing (both pushing and pulling, in my opinion, are bad things for beginning photographers--but that's a different thread)
• Temperature control for black and white processing is very simple, I store my developer, fixer, etc. in the same area that I process my film, in my case, my darkroom, I also have enough water stored in jugs for all the dilutions, washes, rinses, etc. that I will need for any processing run, the chemicals and all the water are at the same temperature, room temperature, so I don't need a tempering bath or fancy temperature control, I do need a good thermometer (I have two, one that I use everyday, a dial thermometer with a hex "nut" on the back of the dial so I can recalibrate it as needed and a check thermometer (A Kodak Type 3 Process Thermometer I nicknamed "god", a digital fever thermometer would probably work just as well) that and a time/temperature chart and I am good to go. Or you can buy some pretty good temperature control for $1000. And a scanner if that's the way you roll.

In the past I have tried to use community darkrooms, there's always one joker in every group, the guy that does not clean up after himself, that thinks it's funny to sabotage others, that has no care for equipment he does not personally own, contaminates chemical stock, puts poorly washed prints through dryers, and that will not report accidental damage for fear of getting kicked out.

 

[Jim Jones]

My experience agrees with Mike. In B&W film developing, absolute temperature accuracy is less important than consistency. If film tanks, chemicals, and wash water are maintained at room temperature, an ordinary wall thermometer provides that consistency. Much information is available on traditional B&W chemistry, making it ideal for serious photographers. Diluted Kodak T-Max developer and undiluted HC-110 keep well for occasional users. In 50 years of darkroom work, I've never even considered monobaths.

 

[bdial]

That price seems a bit steep, though I don't know that I'd make my darkroom available 24/7 and unlimited use for less than that, assuming it was feasible.
As others have said, processing your film need not take up a big investment in time, space or money. As for printing, if there is a hourly rate for the darkroom that might make more sense if your use will be limited. Aside from that, even though its off-topic here, digital printing may be a good alternative for you, given your current situation. A small scanner and a good printer will cost about the same as 1 year of the rental darkroom.

 

[MattKing]

$20.00 a week - boy I would appreciate that opportunity.
But for you, the reason to do so would be the printing side. IMHO, there is absolutely nothing that improves technique (in camera exposure and film development) than actually printing. It is also the most fun. And if you have space constraints, you can limit yourself to 8x10 prints primarily, and the space necessary will be minimal.
One "Rubbermaid" tote should be more than enough space for standard film developing. It is simple to achieve appropriate temperature control for black and white, because in most cases you can work at room temperature (adjusting development time as required).
And I'll echo the comments that say: avoid pushing and pulling. To be able to get any real benefit from them, you have to do your own printing.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Renting a darkroom only makes sense if you have a long term project that requires printing... The price they list for a year is very , very reasonable, if as you
say its fully equipped and is open long hours.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Hmm. 21 CAD per week with all included is great deal if you really want to step into the darkroom. As long as it is not overcrowded.

I'm not getting this monobath thing. One small metal developing tank, one bottle of HC-110 and one small bottle of fixer concentrate, plus little bottle of photoflow is next to no space setup and has huge developing capacity.
5x7 prints under common in Canada Vivitar small enlarger isn't something big, either, and will fit for couple of hours into the bathroom.

 

[mklw1954]

You don't say how many rolls per year you shoot, which is important to judge whether or not the $1,000 annual fee is a good deal. At $20 per roll for outside development the $1,000 fee is better if you shoot more than 50 rolls per year.

Conventional b&w development is about $0.75/per roll in chemical costs (D76 stock, stop, fixer, hypoclear) after a minor investment in a changing bag, some reels and tanks, a color thermometer and a digital thermometer to calibrate against the color thermometer, a six-pack cooler to maintain proper temperature during development, a pair of lab goggles and a box of nitrile gloves.

 

[darkroommike]

And with 24/7 access you also get folks that shouldn't be in your darkroom space. We had a similar problem at the range I use, finally had to go to security cameras and electronic "fobs" to minimize guests of guests and parties.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

That sounds like a good deal.

 

[Ces1um]

All very interesting responses! I guess I should try to address some of the more common comments. To begin, why monobath? I keep my development equipment at work as we have a legitimate "dark room" but it is setup for xray processing so shelf space is non existent. Having multiple trays in there would be a real challenge. On the plus side, silver recovery is easy! The monobath is a single jar that I can place in the sink and warm it to its necessary temp of 80 degrees F. I can also put my paterson tank in there to warm up as well. Convenience essentially. That being said I often see temperature gradiations despite my best attempts to prewarm my tank. Another reason is simply that I'm unfamiliar with mixing my own chemistry. I haven't taken that plunge yet.
As for how many rolls of film do I shoot a year- I would say I average one a week so 52 rolls is a real possibility. That being said, half are in colour. This darkroom is only set up currently for black and white.
Why am I not printing? I enjoyed printing while I was taking my b&w film course at the local community college and I totally agree- it does make you a better shooter. It also allows you to compensate for flaws in your negative, which was a serious bonus. I don't print anymore because of the sheer time It takes. The college had an Ilford dry:dry automatic processor but I was taught how to do it wet. Even with the automatic processor it was a process and paper is expensive as well. I'm not sure it was more economical for me to print it than to send it to the local lab. That being said, I did like the results I obtained much better than my labs.
As for after hours shenanigans at the darkroom- the owner I'm told checks everything every morning and currently there are only 28 members. I'm sure it's fairly well maintained.

 

[ac12]

Film developing temp is easy.
Get a dial or digital thermometer.
Use a small tub with 1-2 inches of water at the correct temp.
Problem solved. At least that is how I did it.

I made a 35mm/6x6 printing darkroom in a small half bath. By small I mean less than 36" wide x about 6ft. The enlarger was on a small table over the toilet. And it is broken down after printing, since it has to function as a half bath. I set one up in an apartment, similar to Ko.Fe.'s pix. And in high school, my brother and I took over the kitchen at night, putting blankets up over the windows. So if you really wanted to, you can set up a printing darkroom at home.

 

[John Koehrer]

Although the business would like an annual fee, would they have any interest in something like
a weekly fee at a slight premium? Say $25=$30 week with somewhat limited access.

 

[Sirius Glass]

One can develop film at home easily, but setting up and taking down enlarging equipment can be inconvenient and doing toning requires space. So it comes down to convenience and expense. Also at a public darkroom there may be people there to help you with a problem. When I was working on the East Coast and living on the West Coast, it was worth paying $7/hour for a set up darkroom with the chemical supplied and actively maintained. I would spend five or six hours on the weekends that I wanted to work in the darkroom. 5 hours * $7 * 10 weekends = $350 was worth it for me for the printing and enlarging. I still processed the film at my place. If I had done everything there it would have come closer to $500, but I had a 50 minute drive each way.

So how much time will you spend? Round trip drive time? Or buying more equipment so you can work at home.

 

[avb]

Hi there!
$1000 is a lot of money to spend in one go! We Canadians still get paid in CDN$. And it seems like you aren't totally convinced that you will be going often as you'd like.
I'm from NS and spent 5 years in Halifax and took the continuing studies course that I'm sure you are talking about.
Remember NSCAD is not a community college - it is a legit degree-giving university! (I know it says college in the name though) And it has an amazing photography program and great people. No, I don't work there.

I think, if you are able, you should take the course again for $350. Then you'll know more if you are willing to put the time in.
http://nscad.ca/en/home/schoolofextendedstudies/adultw2017/photography.aspx

The student darkroom is fantastic.
Remember that you get access to the dry-to-dry machine so it can be a nice, easy, and quick process.
As well as RC, I also printed fiber-based paper (wet), so you do have that option, too.
Don't worry about the temperature for B&W film too much - remember that you are taught to adjust developing time with different temperature.
And you also have access to the giant dry-mount press for mounting photos if you wish.

And the NSCAD building with the photography is super weird with strange staircases between old buildings. As you can tell, I really liked taking that course. And my instructor let me know that some people take it over-and-over again to access the darkroom (and sit it on the course, too, of course). I would be taking it over and over if I were still in Halifax and had the time!

 

[Ces1um]

I've taken that course twice now! katherine is a fantastic instructor and their darkroom is amazing. They limited access to the darkroom a little bit (I have mondays off and the cage is closed mondays now). That being said, that's probably a better way to go. I just found the second time around I really didn't want to attend any of the classes (not that the students weren't great people)- I just wanted to get into the darkroom and it usually wasn't set up that day if the class was doing something else. That's likely a far more economical way to do it. Save up film until I have a lot to develop and then join. I could process for hours and hours and print what I wanted when I found something of interest.

 

[John Koehrer]

If the cage is closed Mondays, you could buy your own lens/lens board and carrier. That also gives you a known quality of lens.

 

[Greg Heath]

Honestly, you need to solve the equipment problems first.
You need to figure out what type of film B&W and Color film you desire.
I have a $200 solution for your Temperature concerns that isn't exactly photo related, but it works. You can even cook with it. Don't laugh. https://sansaire.com/ It's a Sansaire Sous Vide. It heats a water bath to within 1/10th of a degree. It works at all film temps. Watch it on Youtube. You can use it at home and use the extra $800 to send out your work to be printed.
True, chems for Color are a pain so I wait until I have a few rolls to do and do them all together. If you were wet printing all the time then $1000/yr for a dedicated darkroom would be a great thing. If you still want to wet print, then negotiate with the darkroom and see if you can make an arrangement to suit both of you, maybe a 3 month or 6 month alternate membership. That way you could help them and they could help you.

Greg