Help with 4 X 5 Camera Kit

rmjranch · Jan 15, 2016

Want to move up from Medium format to 4x5 for fun. Mostly shoot Boats, (not moving), Beach and Portraits. What would you advise for a Camera Kit? It does NOT have to be a bargain price outfit. I can afford to buy some quality equipment. Not too heavy. Reading a few books. New? Used? Where to buy? If I buy used, where to get a CLA? All help greatly appreciated.

shutterfinger · Jan 15, 2016

Do you plan to use it on a tripod only, hand held, or both?

Dan Fromm · Jan 15, 2016

Go to http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ and read the FAQs. Visit the forum at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/ You'll get more and better advice about LF on LFPF than on APUG.

Books. People recommend Steve Simmons' Using the View Camera and Leslie Stroebel's View Camera Technique. Both available used from sellers on, in alphabetical order, abebooks.com, alibris.com, amazon.com, ...

rmjranch · Jan 15, 2016

mdarnton · Jan 15, 2016

If mobility is a big issue and all you want is large film, Pacemaker Crown Graphics make great starter cameras. You lose the fancy movements and the ability to handle lenses much different from "normal", (90mm to 210mm is the comfort range) but it's a nice portable package, if that's important. And it's a hand camera, or a tripod camera, either. It, or something very similar from a different maker (Linhof, Horseman, Wista), is about your only hand camera option.

The answer to a lot of large format questions seems to boil down to the question "How portable?" The most interesting cameras are the least portable, or alternately, if they're portable AND versatile, then they're the most expensive.

Doc W · Jan 15, 2016

It is possible to shoot 4x5 hand-held with a press camera like a Crown Graphic, but I don't think you really gain much over a good MF system. My suggestion would be to get a proper 4x5 field camera for two main reasons: 1) movements, and 2) the ability to develop each sheet individually.

I have used a hand-held press camera and it was fun for a very short time.

shutterfinger · Jan 16, 2016

Super Graphic- front movements only, revolving back, production ended in 1973, available on ebay
Linhoff Technia- IV, V, Master front and rear movements
Toyo field cameras
Wista
Horseman
Shen-Hao

http://www.badgergraphic.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/category&path=2

Ian Grant · Jan 16, 2016

I''d suggest a Super Graphic, or a Toyo 45A. I have a Wista 45DX that I bought 30 years ago but it's not practical to use hand-held so I acquired a Crown Graphic however I find the very limited movements frustrating so bought a Super Graphic. The Super Graphic has sufficient front movements for all the images I shoot with it and it's easy to use handheld which is important as I'm often shooting where tripods aren't permitted, it's also a reasonable weight.

Ian

RalphLambrecht · Jan 16, 2016

rmjranch said:
Want to move up from Medium format to 4x5 for fun. Mostly shoot Boats, (not moving), Beach and Portraits. What would you advise for a Camera Kit? It does NOT have to be a bargain price outfit. I can afford to buy some quality equipment. Not too heavy. Reading a few books. New? Used? Where to buy? If I buy used, where to get a CLA? All help greatly appreciated.

Buy used,plenty available at bargain prices,lenses are mostly universal between cameras and 4x5 cameras do't typically need CLA just make sure the bellows have no holes. and get a sturdy tripod.BTW, don't exprct a mojor jump in quality as one gets from small to medium-format.I'd think MFis hard to beat for your kind of work.

Paul Howell · Jan 16, 2016

Doc W said:
It is possible to shoot 4x5 hand-held with a press camera like a Crown Graphic, but I don't think you really gain much over a good MF system. My suggestion would be to get a proper 4x5 field camera for two main reasons: 1) movements, and 2) the ability to develop each sheet individually.

I have used a hand-held press camera and it was fun for a very short time.

You can shoot both sheet film and roll film with a crown or super speed with interchangeable backs, shooting hand help is very possible, use high speed film, high shutter speed. I agree that there are times when a view camera is a better choice. A nice kit is a Speed or Crown with graflock back and Grafic view camera, 3 lens and a couple of backs.

Sirius Glass · Jan 16, 2016

If you want to shoot hand held and tripod mounted look at Speed Graphics, Crown Graphics, Graflex and Linhof. Take a look at www.graflex.org/helpdesk and the files in www.graflex.org. The Speed Graphic and Graflex have focal plane shutters so that you can use barrel lenses [no lens shutter]. The Speed Graphic can use the focal plane shutter or the lens shutter.

Alan Gales · Jan 16, 2016

Doc W said:
It is possible to shoot 4x5 hand-held with a press camera like a Crown Graphic, but I don't think you really gain much over a good MF system. My suggestion would be to get a proper 4x5 field camera for two main reasons: 1) movements, and 2) the ability to develop each sheet individually.

I have used a hand-held press camera and it was fun for a very short time.

I agree. I had a Crown for a short time and it is a lot easier to hold a medium format camera steady for me.

Jim Jones · Jan 16, 2016

PDH said:
You can shoot both sheet film and roll film with a crown or super speed with interchangeable backs, shooting hand help is very possible, use high speed film, high shutter speed. I agree that there are times when a view camera is a better choice. A nice kit is a Speed or Crown with graflock back and Grafic view camera, 3 lens and a couple of backs.

Exactly! The two cameras will cost much less than any quality new view or technical camera, and perform about as well. A Graphic View II has the modest advantage of central tilts, although the earlier model is even more elegant. These two view cameras use the nearly ubiquitous 4" lens boards while the two press cameras use a slightly smaller board. Adaptors are available to use the Speed or Crown boards on the Graphic View. One consideration when planning on both a view and a press camera: the lens that comes on most press cameras barely covers the film area, thus negating the view camera's front movement. One should plan on getting a lens of normal focal length with more coverage. I prefer a Speed or Crown Graphic where convenience is more important than view camera versatility, and use a Graphic View or similar camera where needed.

Ari · Jan 16, 2016

The Graphic is a good suggestion because it's small light and portable.
What it lacks are movements and that's what you can learn shooting LF.
For that, I'd recommend starting with a monorail; a basic Cambo will do, and older Toyo monorails (G, D) are excellent value. You'll have full movements front and back, removable bellows and a Graflok back for roll film or Polaroids. There's no better learning tool for LF.
After some time spent using the monorail, you'll be better informed as to what you want and don't want in a large format camera, and you'll buy the next 4x5 accordingly and with a more experienced eye.
And I think if you want to shoot handheld, use a Pentax 6x7 or something similar.

FiatluX · Jan 16, 2016

Linhof Technika´s with the handle were made for handheld (heavy as f..., yes!) Some people did sports on those back in the day.

fotch · Jan 16, 2016

PDH said:
You can shoot both sheet film and roll film with a crown or super speed with interchangeable backs, shooting hand help is very possible, use high speed film, high shutter speed. I agree that there are times when a view camera is a better choice. A nice kit is a Speed or Crown with graflock back and Grafic view camera, 3 lens and a couple of backs.

Great recommendation. In its day, the Pacemaker Graphics were the cats meow, and still a good choice now.

Sirius Glass · Jan 16, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
If you want to shoot hand held and tripod mounted look at Speed Graphics, Crown Graphics, Graflex and Linhof. Take a look at www.graflex.org/helpdesk and the files in www.graflex.org. The Speed Graphic and Graflex have focal plane shutters so that you can use barrel lenses [no lens shutter]. The Speed Graphic can use the focal plane shutter or the lens shutter.

Later if you want to sell them, keep the lenses and sell the camera for about what you paid for it. The lenses can be used in any other 4"x5" camera.

palewin · Jan 17, 2016

I'm pulled in two directions, since press cameras (all those Graphics people are recommending) are very suited for portraits and use at the beach (two of the primary uses mentioned by the OP) but at the same time, press cameras are only "sort of" view cameras, since what they gain in portability they lose in terms of movements. If the OP really wants the "LF experience," I tend to suggest something in the direction Ari's post is taking, a monorail, the type of camera which is the most flexible form of view camera. I would suggest something in the Sinar series, either an F2 if you can find one, or a Norma in good condition. The Sinars are a total "system" approach, with loads of components and accessories on the used market, and almost every one interchangeable. You can get extra rail sections and bellows if you want to use really long lenses, a bag bellows for really wide lenses, and even a Sinar shutter if you want to use lenses in barrels. The "F" models and the Norma are the most "field use friendly" of the Sinars, the "P" models are excellent studio cameras, but not designed for field use.

Richard Man · Jan 17, 2016

"Fast" portrait with 4x5 is kind of oxymoron, yes it can be done. I have done it, and so has many other people. Probably should just stick with a MF camera with a fast lens, and you nail focus a lot more often with not much loss in quality. After all, who cares about 4x5 tonality if nothing is in focus.

I have a Chamonix F1, and also had at some points a Chamonix Saber, probably the lightest 4x5 ever, and a Gaoersi PS 45. The latter two are sold, and I am still using the Chamonix F1 extensively. For quick portraits, now I use a Hasselblad 203FE with a 150/2.8 or 80/2.8 lens.

Paul Howell · Jan 18, 2016

palewin said:
I'm pulled in two directions, since press cameras (all those Graphics people are recommending) are very suited for portraits and use at the beach (two of the primary uses mentioned by the OP) but at the same time, press cameras are only "sort of" view cameras, since what they gain in portability they lose in terms of movements. If the OP really wants the "LF experience," I tend to suggest something in the direction Ari's post is taking, a monorail, the type of camera which is the most flexible form of view camera. I would suggest something in the Sinar series, either an F2 if you can find one, or a Norma in good condition. The Sinars are a total "system" approach, with loads of components and accessories on the used market, and almost every one interchangeable. You can get extra rail sections and bellows if you want to use really long lenses, a bag bellows for really wide lenses, and even a Sinar shutter if you want to use lenses in barrels. The "F" models and the Norma are the most "field use friendly" of the Sinars, the "P" models are excellent studio cameras, but not designed for field use.

A press camera is a different beast than a typical view camera, it was designed to used used hand held, attached rangefinder, later Superspeeds Lindhof can use interchangeable cams for different lens. A press camera does not replace a view camera and a view camera does not replace a press camera. If OP can only afford one then he/she needs to decide what is most important, movement or shooting hand held. I have both, find myself using my Crown more often than my view camera.

Help with 4 X 5 Camera Kit

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