help with 120 on steel reels

cdholden · Jun 4, 2006

I recently tried developing my own film. I practiced with a sacrificial roll a few times and once I thought I had it, I loaded up an exposed roll of 120 and popped it in the tank. I added about 350ml of dev/stop/fix... voila! All looked good to the eye (still working on getting glass replaced to try enlarging/printing).
Today I attempted to recreate last week's bliss by snapping off a roll of 6x9 shots. Nothing exciting, just want to make sure I've got this down pat before doing any important shots at home.
It was a dismal failure. Only two of 8 exposures looked useable. The others were brown, partially undeveloped and stuck together.
I think my reels are of the Nikkor variety (can post pics if necessary), with spring clip in the middle. It worked last time with the same volume of liquid and times in dev/stop/fix. What am I doing wrong? Is there a "proper" way to load these reels that I can repeat? I'm thinking I just got lucky last time. How does one keep film from touching when you can't see in the dark?
I'd rather not turn this thread into a "this is what I own/use and it is the best". Plenty of people have these. I don't think I need a magic bullet. I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong so I can correct my mistakes and do this reliably. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Chris

Kevin Caulfield · Jun 4, 2006

So, the two exposures which were okay were not brown like the others? The brown colour is not just down one side of the negs? 350 ml does not seem much for 120, but in stainless it wouldn't be too much short. I use about 400 to 450ml. It just sounds like incomplete development and/or fixing. You say "about 350ml"?

Wally H · Jun 4, 2006

I can't help you with your particular reels, but I can say that I ruined plenty too before I got the yen of it... Hang in there, put on some mellow music, relax, take deep breaths and pause when you get frustrated and things seem to be hanging up, etc, etc... I still have bad moments, must be the phyiscal critical day thing... The only thing that will cause me consistent grief is having any kind of moisture on the reel...

Curt · Jun 4, 2006

Fill to the top and when loading the film on the reel make sure even if you have to unroll it all off and start all over. It's easy to get going and think it's all right and find the film over lapped. Make sure that the leader is square when putting it under the the spring clip. If not the film will bind and roll in the groove and will get off. Make sure the film is centered in the spring clip. Of course make sure that you are loading the film on in the correct direction. It sounds like the developer level was low. A single 120 tank needs about 450 ml.

Regards,
Curt

cdholden · Jun 4, 2006

Kevin Caulfield said:
So, the two exposures which were okay were not brown like the others? The brown colour is not just down one side of the negs? 350 ml does not seem much for 120, but in stainless it wouldn't be too much short. I use about 400 to 450ml. It just sounds like incomplete development and/or fixing. You say "about 350ml"?

Kevin,
"At least 350ml" is more accurate. I'm using Pyrex glass measuring cups, so it's hard to be spot on. Actual measurement is somewhere between 350-375. I picked this up in reading online. After your mention of 400-450, I put the reel in the tank (no film) and covered it with water. 400ml will *just* cover the top of the 120 reel without film. OK, so I need to add a little more. What bothers me is the brown/undeveloped areas of film go top to bottom, not just on the top. If it was an issue of not enough liquid, I would think the top would be undeveloped. With the undeveloped area covering top to bottom, I'm thinking the film is sticking to itself as it wraps around the reel. Sound sane?
Thanks.
Chris

Donald Qualls · Jun 5, 2006

Roger that -- my Nikor stainless tank in that size (actually the slightly larger 2x135 tank) requires 14 ounces, about 420 ml, to cover 120 film, or 16 ounces, 480 ml, to cover two rolls of 35 mm.

What you describe, however, sounds like what happens when the film jumps the spiral and contacts itself; the emulsion side of the contact will be "protected" from developer and fixer and will come out of the tank milky or tan with undeveloped halide; depending on the film, there might also be blue or green dye left on the base side where the contact occurred on that surface.

See above for loading 120 -- I've almost gotten out of practice at loading 120 on stainless, since discovering I could load two rolls end to end in a plastic reel for my Paterson tank and thus develop twice the film in about 20% more liquid (500 ml instead of 420). I do recall, however, that it took me four or five rolls to quit making "murder marks" (little crescents caused by kinking the film) loading stainless reels.

cdholden · Jun 5, 2006

Curt said:
Fill to the top and when loading the film on the reel make sure even if you have to unroll it all off and start all over. It's easy to get going and think it's all right and find the film over lapped. Make sure that the leader is square when putting it under the the spring clip. If not the film will bind and roll in the groove and will get off. Make sure the film is centered in the spring clip. Of course make sure that you are loading the film on in the correct direction. It sounds like the developer level was low. A single 120 tank needs about 450 ml.

Regards,
Curt

What is the correct direction? I've not found any pics online to confirm.
Last time, I had the reel in my left handwith clip pointing to the right, and film in my right hand. I lift the clip and slide film under it. As it starts its way around the reel, it begins with a sharp turn coming out from under the clip. Once I get past this and get it rolling, it seems to go on ok.
Chris

Kevin Caulfield · Jun 5, 2006

Sounds right. The clear side of the film would then be face-up, so that the emulsion ends up being the side facing the inside of the reel.

cdholden · Jun 5, 2006

cdholden said:
What is the correct direction? I've not found any pics online to confirm.
Last time, I had the reel in my left handwith clip pointing to the right, and film in my right hand. I lift the clip and slide film under it. As it starts its way around the reel, it begins with a sharp turn coming out from under the clip. Once I get past this and get it rolling, it seems to go on ok.
Chris

Grrrrrr... as I sit and look at the spiral (as I should have done to begin with) I think I'm rolling in the wrong direction.
Thanks for the tip, Donald.
Chris

Curt · Jun 5, 2006

Sounds like you have the answer. I feel for the outer most part of the reel where it ends. If the points are pointing to the right while the reel is in my left hand then the orientation is correct.

Good luck,
Curt

removed account4 · Jun 5, 2006

hi chris -

sorry about your troubles ..roll the film the same way the spiral goes (if that makes sense)...i do a little trick when i load film on a metal reel ..
as i am loading it, i take the film that i still have in my hand and i push it a little bit in the reel - the film should "slip" a tiny bit (i do this with 120 + 35mm film) that way you know it isn't bound up funny in the reel, and everything will get wet with chemicals. you can see what i mean with a your practice roll ...
sounds kind of strange to push the film (towards the spring), but it works

good luck!

-john

John Koehrer · Jun 5, 2006

folloowing up on jnanian's method, once I have started the film on the reel, I set it on the counter, put a slight curl in the film & push it onto the reel. As the loading progresses tthe film rotates the reel.
I found that the slight positive pressure keeps every thing Okey dokey.

Ronald Moravec · Jun 5, 2006

Fill the tank with water until it just covers the reel. Daylight -cover off.

now measure the water.

Film on the reel has a slight slipage, push pull it, if it has not skipped the track which is what happened to you. Check every other wrap to make sure it slips a little.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 5, 2006

I do what Curt does--feel for the ends of the spirals with my right hand while holding the reel in my left hand. I unroll the film partway from the spool, start it on the spiral partway and THEN slip it under the spring clip, when I'm sure it's centered.

Then I put the reel on the table, unwind more film from the spool and push it onto the reel, rolling the reel along the table with the film parallel to the table surface, pushing and pulling back a little to be sure it's going on correctly. At the end of the film, if I'm using a 120 reel, the film should be on the outermost portion of the spiral. If it isn't, then I know there's an overlap. If I'm loading 120 on a 220 reel, then I'll count the number of revolutions of wire on each side of the reel--they should be the same.

help with 120 on steel reels

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