Help: Prints turn brown after about a month

Gerald C Koch · Nov 29, 2017

LarsAC said:
Great service, David@Harman/Ilford.

@OP: fixer diluted 1+4 is ideal, also for paper. Ilford even recommends it for FB to shorten wash times. I use 1+4 all the time, also for RC without problems.

30secs fixing time might be somewhat optimistic. I would give it another try with at least 60secs, maybe 90secs.

I had issues of prints turn brown after few onths and suspect the cheap wooden back if the frame to be the cause, as it never happened to those prints which were properly mounted on archival board and then framed. Probably goes into the same direction Ralph pointed towards.

Lars

Ilford's recomendations seem to work better in Ilford's labs than in darkrooms.

gary in nj · Nov 29, 2017

I always start with unused chemicals. I use indicator stopbath and I may have to swap that out after 15 or so 8x10's. My prints sit in the fixer tray for the time it takes me to set up the next exposure, develop that exposure and get it into the stopbath - probably 4 to 5 minutes. From there the print goes into a water tray. Once all of my printing is done I bring my water tray to a sink with running water and do 8-10 fill/dump cycles, rearranging the photos often. I'll then allow a slow run of water for a few minutes after that. Funny, I use HC for my negatives, but have never thought of using it for the prints. I guess I don't need it because in 40+ years of darkroom work I can't think of a single time I've lost a photo due to discoloration. In 40+ years, my process hasn't changed either. Once you find a process that works - stick with it.

Sirius Glass · Nov 29, 2017

Harman Tech Service said:
I second most of what has been stated above. Your times seem fine. Don't forget "gentle agitation".
Or, as I know it, "move it around a bit".
See:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/2012/product_id/711/
(Rapid Fix)
and
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1957/product_id/743/
(MGIV RC)
-Doremus, the cached sheet you refer to is an earlier version but mostly small changes.

Reading what you have said about washing I suspect that the fixer is the most likely culprit. If you send me the batch number then I'll tell you how old it is (eg.41B020).
STORAGE: Full, unopened bottles of ILFORD RAPID FIXER concentrate stored in cool conditions, 5–20ºC (41–68ºF), will keep for two years.
Once opened use completely within six months and keep all bottles tightly sealed until used.
(Some people can store for longer and find all is OK but we have to be conservative, lower temperatures -never freezing- are better.)
Regards,
David
(technical@harmantechnology.com)

Thank you for your support on Photrio.

NJH · Nov 29, 2017

I apply the same chemicals and materials using the Ilford guidance 'as is' except perhaps often somewhat longer wash times typically around 3 to 5 minutes in our hard water. I use the Patterson RC washer with the hose connected to our electric shower which I run at low level, this gives a nice constant flow over the print at about 13 degrees C. I only ever wash one print at a time in that thing. I also from day one have tended to grab the print and agitate it a bit in the wash to help shake fixer out, its a tip I was taught many years ago. I have a print sat on my desk at work for the last year under bright large open plan office lights, dust etc. once dusted off it looks fine to me and still is paper white around the border. I am seeing how long it takes to yellow or fade.

Honestly this sounds like insufficient washing.

NJH · Dec 3, 2017

Prompted by this discussion I had a careful look at the two prints on my desk the other day. On one of them the border has changed colour subtlety, could only notice in comparison to the other MGIV RC print which has a sort of blueish white tinge to the border. Held on its own the one which is changing just looks white, but it doesn't have the blueish bright white tinge of the other print in direct comparison. 11 months under pretty constant office lighting without any protection, I think I am fairly pleased with that but it does of course make one wonder how one print is starting to change colour and yet the other isn't. Probably made worse by the fact I have them sat up against my computer gently outgassing on to them for roughly a third of the year.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 5, 2017

CMoore said:
Hey Ralph -
Are you saying his problem stems from lack of toning, or that he has a washing problem but also needs to tone .....if you know what i mean.?
Thank You

I mean that a well-processed but untoned print is still vulnerable to environmental gases such as ozone, paint fumes etc; in other words: fix well, wash thoroughly and tone to be sure to het the best longevity.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 5, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
Ilford's recomendations seem to work better in Ilford's labs than in darkrooms.

This Ilford recommendation is a good one and based on solid evidence.

Help: Prints turn brown after about a month

Gerald C Koch

gary in nj

Sirius Glass

NJH

NJH

RalphLambrecht

RalphLambrecht

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