Help please with Metz 60CT1

Jean Noire · Oct 30, 2007

I have been given a complete Metz flashgun - head, battery pack c/w battery, charger and cables.
It does not work at present, the widow of the previous owner tells me that it was working perfectly but was not used for a number of years. There was no documentation available for the unit
How do I try to charge the battery?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
John.

MattKing · Oct 30, 2007

John:

Here is a page on the Metz website that has lots of the manuals, including for the CT1.

Matt

http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/manuals.164.html

Doyle Thomas · Oct 30, 2007

The 60ct1 uses a nicad battery, nicads will often not take a charge if they are fully drained and left in that state for a long period. The charger port is on the battery holder on the opposite side from where the strobe plugs in. I looks to me to be a proprietary connection using a 120/7 volt AC transformer.

charger: Metz Typ728 part number 0000728
battery: Metz NC-Akku 60-39 000060393

Doyle

MattKing · Oct 31, 2007

Doyle's correct, except...

The 60 CT1 has been in the Metz line for a long time. Depending on how old the unit is, it may be configured to take one, two or three types of batteries:

1) a nicad battery;
2) a dryfit battery (similar in many ways to a nicad, but with no problems with memory effect; and/or
3) a lead acid cell.

I haven't seen or used a lead acid cell for decades, but both of the battery housings I have (one of which came with my 60 CT2 and the other of which came with my 60 CT1) have a 3 position switch in the battery compartment that allows you to set the type of battery you are using, and there is a spot on the switch for lead acid (marked "Pb").

Each type of battery will respond differently to lack of use, but it certainly isn't good for any of them.

The flashes are great - they are powerful, flexible and accurate, they recycle quickly and they give a lot of flashes on a charge, but the batteries are neither light, nor cheap.

If you are buying a new one, I like the dryfit batteries best. I believe that the part number referred to by Doyle is the Nicad version.

This link is to the Metz website page listing current accessories for the flash:

http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/zubehoer.144-89.html

Matt

Doyle Thomas said:
The 60ct1 uses a nicad battery, nicads will often not take a charge if they are fully drained and left in that state for a long period. The charger port is on the battery holder on the opposite side from where the strobe plugs in. I looks to me to be a proprietary connection using a 120/7 volt AC transformer.

charger: Metz Typ728 part number 0000728
battery: Metz NC-Akku 60-39 000060393

Doyle

Jean Noire · Oct 31, 2007

Thankyou both for your replies.
Matt, the switch in the battery housing is set to the NC position so I assume that it is a NiCad battery fitted. I cleaned the contacts on both battery housing and battery and after packing the base of the housing (I not that there is a screw missing that goes through the base to lift the battery into position) put the unit on charge. After a few minutes a green diode lit where the charger connects. After a night charging a red light also appeared.
Doyle has said that the strobe head connects on the opposite side of the battery unit to the charger and I tried this to find that when the unit was switched on then a red diode on the top flashed and a red light on the back of the strobe lit. Testing the head was successful!!!!

Thankyou both for the information and the links. I will use these to establish how to use the 60CT, if I have problems I will post again.
Really appreciated the help,
Regards,
John.

Mike Wilde · Oct 31, 2007

Dryfits like to stay chrarged

I am presuming that it is a dryfit you have. The metz accumulator has circuitry to prevent the cell from being over charged. The dryfit is a gelled electrolyte version of a car battery. If not kept charged, the sulfur will drop out of the sulfuric acid solution, and the battery will begin to 'bulge' - walls will no longer be straight. I charge my CT1 after every time that I give it a good workout, even if it is still recycling promptly.

In Canada a new dryfit goes for about $65, plus shipping if it must be mailed to you, so look after the battery. With care they in professional (heavy) use usually are considered to last a few years; with regular charging you should be able to keep a new one ticking longer than that.

Flash that have not been used for a while often need to let the capacitor 're-form'. Just turn the flash on, but don't fire it for the first half hour or so. This will let the paste electrolyte in the unit to get itself back in an energized configuration before the unit is discherged. This will prevent premture capacitor failure due to internal arc over.

Jean Noire · Oct 31, 2007

Mike Wilde said:
I am presuming that it is a dryfit you have. The metz accumulator has circuitry to prevent the cell from being over charged. The dryfit is a gelled electrolyte version of a car battery. If not kept charged, the sulfur will drop out of the sulfuric acid solution, and the battery will begin to 'bulge' - walls will no longer be straight. I charge my CT1 after every time that I give it a good workout, even if it is still recycling promptly.

In Canada a new dryfit goes for about $65, plus shipping if it must be mailed to you, so look after the battery. With care they in professional (heavy) use usually are considered to last a few years; with regular charging you should be able to keep a new one ticking longer than that.

Flash that have not been used for a while often need to let the capacitor 're-form'. Just turn the flash on, but don't fire it for the first half hour or so. This will let the paste electrolyte in the unit to get itself back in an energized configuration before the unit is discherged. This will prevent premture capacitor failure due to internal arc over.

Hi Mike,
Thankyou for the advice and information, it has been noted.
The unit is working fine at present but I will bear your comments in mind when it needs a new battery.
Again many thanks,
Regards,
John

Dirk-san · Oct 7, 2009

Sorry to revive old post, but for future reference the battery can be had fairly cheaply in Germany, perhaps elsewhere in case the Sonnenschein brand is sold elsewhere:

http://server2.gs-shop.de/200/cgi-b...bnr=A506/4,2K&PKEY=0F3D&Hauptseite=detail.htm

SONNENSCHEIN dryfit Batterie 6V/4,2Ah 0789539000 A506/4,2K for Metz 60CT-1/2

Top view of contacts: http://www.batterie-ecke.de/img/a506-4,2k_k.jpg

I am using one in my CT-1

Update: try Lauderdale Battery & Alternator http://www.sonnenschein.org/A500.htm You want type A506/4,2K (note there is also A506/4,2S)

benjiboy · Oct 7, 2009

And be careful John, I have one of these,and with a guide number of 60 meters It's so powerfull the flash will almost strip wallpaper.

Ralph Javins · Oct 18, 2009

Good morning, John;

BenjiBoy may have something there. I use four (4) 60 CT-1 flash units for portrait photography. I have noticed that all of the sittings in recent times have been done with the people insisting that, yes, they normally do wear high altitude glacier type sun glasses.

"News Flash!" In looking through the manual, I do see that there is a way to have the internal electronics cut the power back by five (5) stops. This might even help with the number of people asking me why I am testing low yield thermo-unclear devices while taking photographs.

Q.G. · Oct 19, 2009

Why not switch to Metz 45 units?

They are a bit less powerfull.
But only a bit (not even a whole stop), yet do not need that big, heavy, cumbersome, separate generator/battery pack, that you are tethered to, hanging off your shoulder.

epatsellis · Oct 19, 2009

find a mecamet, you'll be in heaven. I have one, and it's not for sale. 6 or 7 stops of adjustment in manual, same number of fstop choices. Well worth the the hunt (and price)

Q.G. · Oct 19, 2009

On a practical note: you'll find more of them if you spell it "Mecamat".

epatsellis · Oct 19, 2009

Illustrating why I shouldn't post in the short time between classes!

MattKing · Oct 19, 2009

Q.G. said:
Why not switch to Metz 45 units?

They are a bit less powerfull.
But only a bit (not even a whole stop), yet do not need that big, heavy, cumbersome, separate generator/battery pack, that you are tethered to, hanging off your shoulder.

This post really illustrates how issues like this are a matter of taste. I prefer the 60 series flashes because of the over the shoulder battery pack.

By moving the battery and some of the related circuitry to the pack, the head itself is made lighter - something I used to appreciate after photographing a long wedding with flash mounted to my Mamiya C330 bracket.

Horses for courses, I guess .

Matt

Chan Tran · Oct 19, 2009

I had a 45CT1 back in 77 and then later a 60CT2 and now a 60CT4. At first I went for the 60 because of the power (which you all know not much more) but I found out it's much less tiring carrying the 60 series because the flash unit is lighter although bigger. The extra power comes in handy only in term of faster recycling time as the flash still has significant charge left after each shot not so much in term of being able to shoot farther or with smaller aperture.

benjiboy · Oct 20, 2009

The Metz 60 CT4 has full, 1/2,1/4,1/8/and 1/16 power on manual , but for indoor and studio work studio flash (strobe) I find is a much better option the output on some can be adjusted in 1/10 of a stop increments that also adjusts the modeling lights in proportion and to buy a four head outfit for around the same price as four 60 CT4 either mono-blocks or battery powered units.

photomy · Mar 24, 2011

MattKing said:
Doyle's correct, except...

The 60 CT1 has been in the Metz line for a long time. Depending on how old the unit is, it may be configured to take one, two or three types of batteries:

1) a nicad battery;
2) a dryfit battery (similar in many ways to a nicad, but with no problems with memory effect; and/or
3) a lead acid cell.

I haven't seen or used a lead acid cell for decades, but both of the battery housings I have (one of which came with my 60 CT2 and the other of which came with my 60 CT1) have a 3 position switch in the battery compartment that allows you to set the type of battery you are using, and there is a spot on the switch for lead acid (marked "Pb").

FYI, a Dryfit brand battery is actually a type of lead acid battery as to its chemistry and uses a thick gel instead of water. As such, it has similar (but not exactly the same) charging and discharging characteristics as a conventional lead acid battery.

bigspecbear · Mar 31, 2011

About battery replacement for the Metz 60....

I already have a Metz 60 power pack with a Li-Ion battery. I later bought a spare (no battery) for $2.50. Since it is only a back up, and I'm cheap, I didn't want to spend $80 for a new replacement battery. An SLA battery with the same voltage and capacity, only different in size, is only less than $10.

So I decided to mutilate the power pack to contain the $10 SLA battery. It's on the right in the photos below.

bigspecbear · Mar 31, 2011

benjiboy said:
The Metz 60 CT4 has full, 1/2,1/4,1/8/and 1/16 power on manual ,

I don't know about yours. But my Metz 60CT4 has variable power settings from full to 1/256 (that's 8 stop intervals), adjustable in 1/3 of a stop.

Jean Noire · Mar 31, 2011

"I already have a Metz 60 power pack with a Li-Ion battery. I later bought a spare (no battery) for $2.50. Since it is only a back up, and I'm cheap, I didn't want to spend $80 for a new replacement battery. An SLA battery with the same voltage and capacity, only different in size, is only less than $10." - Bigspecbear.

This is good to know. Thank you for the information. I had to eventually replace the battery and managed to get a dry fit cell from Metz U.K that has now lasted 3 years but it did cost £50 ( about $80). What about charging the SLA (standard lead acid?) battery, I assume with the Metz charger?,
Regards
John.

Mike Wilde · Mar 31, 2011

I run my ct-1/2 pack with sla batteries - one internal, and two in an external pack that I connect via a frankenmod to a parallel the main battery.

I don't have the proper Metz charger. I have adapted an old 6V ac plug pack from an old desktop calculator to feed AC to the charger terminals, and figured out that it needs about 7.2VAC in to properly charge the SLA battery ( yes, the three position swiths is set to dryfit ). So I feed the plug pack from an autotransformer feeding at higher than 120V to pump 7.2 Vac out of what was meant to be a 6V pack.

bigspecbear · Mar 31, 2011

John Roberts said:
This is good to know. Thank you for the information. I had to eventually replace the battery and managed to get a dry fit cell from Metz U.K that has now lasted 3 years but it did cost £50 ( about $80). What about charging the SLA (standard lead acid?) battery, I assume with the Metz charger?,

Yes, I charge the $10 SLA battery with the supplied Metz charger, with the lug set to "Dry-Fit." As stated, the $10 battery has the same chemical (SLA), voltage (6V), and capacity (4.5 Ah). The only difference is the dimension.

This is the battery I bought.

I bought the Li-Ion battery from here. If you're interested, you may want to drop them a message asking about shipping to where you are.

The Li-Ion is 1 lb lighter than its SLA counterpart, has more capacity. For what I can measure, recycle time is shorter (about 4.5 sec vs. 6.5 sec). I just have it for a few months so I can't tell about its longevity.

bigspecbear · Apr 1, 2011

BTW, SLA is Sealed Lead Acid.

lofty ideas · Mar 11, 2012

Using SLA

Since the dimensions are larger for the SLA how do you use the supplied charger and how do you hook it up to the flash?

Help please with Metz 60CT1

Jean Noire

MattKing

Moderator

Doyle Thomas

MattKing

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Jean Noire

Mike Wilde

Jean Noire

Dirk-san

benjiboy

Ralph Javins

Q.G.

epatsellis

Q.G.

epatsellis

MattKing

Moderator

Chan Tran

benjiboy

photomy

bigspecbear

bigspecbear

Jean Noire

Mike Wilde

bigspecbear

bigspecbear

lofty ideas

Help please with Metz 60CT1

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