Help please! What am I doing wrong?

Rashed · May 12, 2018

Hello everyone,

New to the forum and to B&W developing. I've recently developed 2 rolls of Ilford FP4 at its normal 125 ISO and both rolls have a lot of white debris/spotting on them - please see the attached scans. The negatives similarly look cruddy with dark spots, I've taken photos of these on my phone so excuse the quality.

I'm using HC-110 at dilution B for 9mins 20degC, Ilfostop for 30secs, Ilford Rapid Fixer for 3mins, then the Ilford style wash - 5, 10, 20 inversions then final 5 inversions with Ilfotol. I would mention that my HC-110 and Ilfostop I had bought 4 years ago but hadn't got round to using so were unopened until using them now. The Rapid Fixer and Ilfotol are newly purchased.

I've been mixing my chemicals in tap water which in this area is fairly hard.

Doing searches on this and other forums I'm trying to figure out is it 1) a lack of rinsing? 2) not long enough fixing? 3) using tap water for the chemicals? I can purchase deionised water (unfortunately not distilled as such) but then do I just use this for the final rinse or for all the chemicals - developer, stopper and fixer?

I would be very grateful for any help and advice.

Many thanks

Helios 1984 · May 12, 2018

Hi, and welcome to APUG (Photrio).

I think the culprit is your hard water, it may have altered/retarded the developer. You should try to do a test roll, and use a different source of water to develop it. (Distilled water)

Saganich · May 12, 2018

First, wonderful images. Second, eliminate the stop and the wash products. use water for stop and just wash in water. Hard water shouldn't be an issue with Hc110 or the fix. If problem persists then perhaps blame the water and mix with distilled water. I bet its one of those products.

gorbas · May 12, 2018

Is this on 120 film? How old it is and how was stored?

winger · May 12, 2018

gorbas said:
Is this on 120 film? How old it is and how was stored?

+1

The spots look like what happens if 120 film was in humid conditions. If film is stored in the fridge or freezer and taken out of the foil wrapper before it has completely warmed up, this can happen as well. If it's 35mm, then maybe the water, but that's a LOT of spots. I have very hard water and use stuff labeled as distilled (but it's from Walmart and 88 cents/gallon, so it's mostly that it's better than what comes out of our well).

And the stop bath is fine. It isn't the source of the spots. Your method sounds like that's not the issue.

Pentode · May 12, 2018

gorbas said:
Is this on 120 film? How old it is and how was stored?

+2

I recently had the exact same result from, as it happens, expired FP4+ and HC-110.
I, too, thought I had done something wrong until I remembered the age of the film.

MattKing · May 12, 2018

Welcome to Photrio.
The only thing I wonder about in your procedure is the 5 inversions in Ilfotol.
How dilute is the Ilfotol working solution?
Generally speaking, Ilfotol (and other similar products) work best with more of a soak with a bit of gentle agitation - usually with the film already removed from the reels.
What do you mean about the negatives looking cruddy? Can we see a photograph (not a scan) of the negatives? Please try to reveal any residue that may be on the negatives.
I have a suspicion that what we are seeing is actually an artifact of the scanning process, which may be related to the Ilfotol.

PhxMedFormatPhotog · May 12, 2018

What Matt said. Also, I agree that the images are very nice, absent the artifact. Don't get discouraged, we'll help you get sorted. You have a good eye.

Sirius Glass · May 12, 2018

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio

White debris ===> One of the chemicals, probably the developer was not completely mixed.

Agulliver · May 13, 2018

That doesn't look at all like debris. It looks like the mottling you can get with poorly stored 120 film. So was this 120 film? How did you store it, for how long and if cooled (or frozen) what was your procedure for bringing it to room temperature? Can we see photos of the negatives to ascertain if it is debris?

If it's 35mm, the only time I've seen anything like that was with very outdated film *and* outdated developer. Since 1986 I have processed films in one of the hardest water areas in the UK. According to figures the two main locations I have lived have "total hardness" of 380 and 335 mg/l (181 is the start of the "very hard" category). I have never had any issues using tap water so I doubt this is the culprit. Others will be more familiar with HC110 and it's ability to withstand being kept unopened for 4 years but it would probably be OK.

Vw1302 · May 13, 2018

I have got the same issue with expired (more than 20years old) and obviously poorly stored foma film 135. So I don't use it anymore. Nevertheless using distilled water is at least convenient if you spend much more on film, chemistry and time...

Rashed · May 13, 2018

Thank you for all the responses so far.

I've edited my initial post to include photos of the negatives (taken on my phone so excuse the quality).

Yes this was 120 film taken on my Fuji 645, the film had been sitting in the camera for perhaps 2 years? I've also attached a couple of frames and their negatives from the first roll of FP4 I developed . This was taken on a Yashicamat probably from 7 or 8 years ago and I just found the roll sitting in my drawer when I as having a rummage around, as you can see there is some light leak on one of the frames.

2 points which I hadn't put initially about my process, Ilfotol 2.5ml in 500ml water and used a rubber squeegee thing once when hanging up the film to dry.

Basically I had dabbled a bit into film and developing many years ago, then life kind of got in the way and I hadn't done any film photography in years, sticking to digital for the convenience. But now I want to get back into it. These 2 rolls were my 'test rolls' to get the hang of it again.

But I'm hesitant to develop a roll of HP5 I've just shot because of these results, hence asking for advice from your good selves.

removed account4 · May 13, 2018

no clue what happened to your film ..
did you soak in water before you added the developer ?
old developer? old fixer?
whatever you did, i kind of like it , beautiful photographs !

glad you found us !

Saganich said:
First, wonderful images. Second, eliminate the stop and the wash products. use water for stop and just wash in water. Hard water shouldn't be an issue with Hc110 or the fix. If problem persists then perhaps blame the water and mix with distilled water. I bet its one of those products.

what he said !

Cholentpot · May 13, 2018

If you can I'd also eliminate the Ilford method wash and just go for the 15-20 minute wash.

Nice photos though...

pdeeh · May 13, 2018

Cholentpot said:
If you can I'd also eliminate the Ilford method wash and just go for the 15-20 minute wash.
/QUOTE]
Because?

tezzasmall · May 13, 2018

Hi Rashed,

I too am in Essex (Southend) and only had this problem once or twice last year = with OLD and probably badly stored (high temps in summer) Ilford ISO 3200 film. Other newer films have been fine.

I have no problem with Essex water, although I do filter it to be on the safe side, which I carry over from first doing it in London, where I lived for about 20 years, where the water was hard and full of limescale. I initially tried water sold at garages which helped but I then found it easier to filter it, with even a general drinking water filter jug working just fine.

My suggestion is to get a couple of new and fresh films and fingers crossed there should be no problem.

Terry S
SoS, UK

bdial · May 13, 2018

Your processing procedure is fine, the problem is due to the old film.

Cholentpot · May 13, 2018

It might not always work that's why. Do the research, if you're not short of water or time just go for the standard wash.

MattKing · May 13, 2018

Rashed said:
Yes this was 120 film taken on my Fuji 645, the film had been sitting in the camera for perhaps 2 years? I've also attached a couple of frames and their negatives from the first roll of FP4 I developed . This was taken on a Yashicamat probably from 7 or 8 years ago and I just found the roll sitting in my drawer when I as having a rummage around, as you can see there is some light leak on one of the frames.

The "old film" issues tend to make it difficult to determine the source of problems. Particularly when backing paper is involved.
Might I assume correctly that Essex is a place where things can get cold and damp some times?
Try a new, fresh roll - I expect it will give you good results.
And I would recommend doing without the squeegee. The potential for scratches is high, and the Ilfotol is designed to make it unnecessary.

Agulliver · May 13, 2018

Thanks for the photos of the negs. To me, it confirms that this is not a debris issue but that it's mottling. This is usually caused when 120 film is exposed to high humidity and/or a few years out of date.

I'd suggest trying a roll of fresh film with the exact same processing regimen.

mshchem · May 13, 2018

New film, throw away the sponge , follow Ilford processing instructions posted on their wonderful website. Don't shake the final Ilfotol step. Use DI water for final rinse and developer. The HC110 is fine . CHECK YOUR OLD RAPID FIXER FOR FLOATIES Sometimes if ammonium thiosulfate rapid fix gets cold, old and has oxygen, sulfur will precipitate, if it does get rid of it.
You have wonderful images, just get freshened up and follow the instructions from the manufacturer.
Easy Peezee
Mike

charlemagne · May 13, 2018

badly stored film. in one way or another the film became moist.
I guess your developer, stopbath and fixer work fine with tap water.
Make a test with a film that hasn't expired. Film that comes out of the fridge needs to get used to ambient temperature, so let it rest for an hour or so

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2018

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio

You have been given good advice above. Presoak the film, and pour in and out the developer quickly to avoid uneven development.

Rashed · May 13, 2018

Thank you everyone for all your responses and for welcoming me to the forum.

Ok so the consensus is that its to do with the old film. Most seem to feel that the hard water shouldn't make a difference but a few say to use to for developer and final rinse - I've bought a supply of deionised water I can try it with.

Pre-soak the film? I've not come across this before, just water at 20deg? How long? Agitation or no agitation?

I have a roll of fresh HP5, freshly shot (well a week ago) waiting to be developed but was hesitant to after these initial 2 rolls until I'd taken advice.

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2018

Presoaking is done at the same temperature as the developer and other chemicals so avoid reticulation.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1975AASPB...9...14P

Help please! What am I doing wrong?

Rashed

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