HeLP! New To Me 23c - I got screwed!

psychorobotape · Aug 1, 2007

Okay so I bought a used 23c II yesterday and a bunch of other darkroom equipment that included a dga dichro head. And since I'm a total noob I didn't notice that the 23c condenser head had the dichro's diffusion housing in it instead of the condenser housing/lenses! My questions are these:

1) Where can I buy the condeser housing I can't seem to find it anywhere (b&H, ebay, etc) unless it's called something other than the "condenser housing" which is what the manual calls it.

2) How much is this going to cost me?

3) Do I need a stronger bulb for the diffusion housing to be effective (can't test it yet as I still don't have all the darkroom stuff).

I really wanted to start out with a condenser setup so I'm a bit dissapointed right now any help will be greatly appreciated! -psychorobotape.

psychorobotape · Aug 1, 2007

Here's pics of the diffusion housing if I was being too confusing.

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 1, 2007

Live with the Dichro head. you'll quickly find that when you need to use contrast filters, the Dichro head is a godsend. You CAN get the condensers and other parts from B&H/Calumet/etc. If you buy them new, you will PAY for them. If you must get them, it would probably be cheapest to watch for another 23C on ebay, or scour your local Craigslist.

psychorobotape · Aug 1, 2007

I search for "condenser housing" at both those places and get nothing. Is there another name for the part?

Neal · Aug 1, 2007

Dear psychorobotape,

I would like to second TheFlyingCamera. Use the dichroic head and don't bother with the condensers. The difference in contrast between the two is small and easily handled by VC paper. The argument as to whether or not condenser heads resolve more detail has high quality printers on both sides and never seems to come to a final resolution. A good alignment tool will be far more valuable for making sharp prints than a condenser head.

Enjoy your new enlarger!

Neal Wydra

Nick Zentena · Aug 1, 2007

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._8130_23CIII_Condenser_Lamphouse_No_8130.html

I don't know if that'll fit the II or not.

OTOH LISTEN to the other guys. Live with the current head. If you really feel the need to downgrade to a condensor head then buy a second enlarger.

craigclu · Aug 1, 2007

Nick Zentena said:
OTOH LISTEN to the other guys. Live with the current head. If you really feel the need to downgrade to a condensor head then buy a second enlarger.

I've used these in condenser, cold light and various versions of the dichro. I'd also promote aligning what you have and happily use it. If you use glass carriers, have the finest APO optics and don't mind endless spotting, some hair-splitting side by side comparison -may- show some condenser sharpness difference but I doubt it would be very easily seen. With standard carriers, well-aligned units and the same APO's, I cannot tell the difference in sharpness between 2 units that I use. There is a subtle tone transition that is more pleasant on portraits with the dichro and these days have me using it almost exclusively (I especially appreciate the stepless VC transitions that can be tweaked).

I don't know what optics you use but if not the best level of glass, make an investment as they are virtually being given away on eBay these days.

Peter Schrager · Aug 1, 2007

optics

I agree with what Craig has said here but just reaslize that some lenses just turn out better than others. the schneiders in particular. I've had 'em in winners AND losers. try to get the apo lenses like he said. the el-nikkors are usually a good bet also. I splurged on a Rodenstock Apo 150mm lens many years ago and have never ever regretted it for one minute.
Best, Peter

Chan Tran · Aug 1, 2007

I don't know about the DGA head but the dual dichro head for the 23CII can be used with the condenser lenses. You would also need to install the cone integrator instead of the honeycomb integrator used in the diffusion mode. However, buying those stuff new tend to be expensive so if I were you I simply use the dichroic head in diffusion mode.

mjs · Aug 1, 2007

I believe I've seen this part come up on Ebay fairly often. I bought the equivalent part for my Beseler 45 because I wanted the filter drawer (my Beseler 45 was so old, it didn't have one!) Keep an eye out and you ought to be able to get one pretty inexpensively.

mjs

psychorobotape · Aug 1, 2007

It's a relief that you guys dont think i'll notice any difference, thanks for all the input so far.

Do you guys think I should use the diffusion housing in the normal 23c II head or should I put it in the dga dichro and attach that to the enlarger? I will only be doing black and white prints right now so I don't need to print in color but would there be an advantage to using the dichro head as opposed to the regular head? Quicker enlarging times maybe? Any disadvantages?

bdial · Aug 1, 2007

The advantage is that for using variable contrast paper (the most likely scenario), changing filtration is much easier with a dichro head than using slide in filters. Also, if you don't already own a set of multigrade filters, you won't need to buy them.
The exposure times may well be a bit longer, but I don't see any other disadvantage.
-barry

psychorobotape · Aug 5, 2007

ahhh, yes that makes sense. thanks.

Eric Rose · Aug 5, 2007

Nick Zentena said:
If you really feel the need to downgrade to a condensor head then buy a second enlarger.

Downgrade??!! I use both diffusion and condenser depending on what I want for a look and feel. Both are excellent options. Although for a beginner the dichro head will be very useful for contrast control.

Bob Carnie · Aug 5, 2007

If you can find a condensor unit in the future at a good price I would go for it.
I use condensor/diffusion/glass carriers/apo lenses / for my work
I love diffusion for reasons stated above, portraits, smoothness of tones.
But I have to admit for 75% of all my work I prefer condensor light source, and have wished on many occasions to move to pointlight source.

A lot of your decisions on light source IMO would be based on the style/quality of print, the light source gives.

As you use the enlarger more you will come to your personal conclusions.

Nothing beats , a aligned enlarger, glass carriers, humity control for dust, clean original negatives, good quality apo lenses and fresh chemicals.
have fun.

Nick Zentena · Aug 5, 2007

Eric Rose said:
Downgrade??!! I use both diffusion and condenser depending on what I want for a look and feel. Both are excellent options. Although for a beginner the dichro head will be very useful for contrast control.

I was trying to convince him to use what he had

HeLP! New To Me 23c - I got screwed!

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