help needed Mixing XTOL and RODINAL

[Lemale]

Helo,


I've seen quite nice results from mixing XTOL and Rodinal, but haven't found good explanation or dilutions and times for this mixture. Maybe some of you folks can share your experience?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Never tried it. Likely never will.

Too many variables -- both developers are good in their own ways separately. I don't see how mixing them would gain anything, rather (at best) push you into the middle ground between them. You'd be giving up the things Xtol does best (grain, film speed, sharpness), by compromising with Rodinal (speed losing, no grain smoothing, little if any sharpness enhancement).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Not sure why you would want to do this. What would be the benefit?

 

[removedacct1]

Yet another developer myth that has gained too much traction in cyberspace.

 

[K-G]

Just be carefull with what batch of Xtol you are using. Check the link below.

Karl-Gustaf

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-xtol-trade-concern-announcment.180508/

 

[BobD]

Try mixing caffenol with cream and sugar.

 

[relistan]

Classic Photrio. New person asks question about how to do something, piled on with "Don't do that".

I've never done this. If you want to try it out, here's a search on Flickr of some folks who have. A few have posted mixes and times for a few films if you click through: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=xtol rodinal

 

[removed account4]

Classic Photrio. New person asks question about how to do something, piled on with "Don't do that".

what can you do ? people like what they know and what they are used to, and seeing film is time spent and
you know seconds that already vanished that will never be back again I can understand why someone might
not want to experiment with that whole mixing developers thing but not me . life's too short..

Hi Lemale
Search on Les Mclean website and his posts here, he was someone who used to do it, or he wrote about it at least. I don't use xtol or rodinal but I regularly mix a little bit of print developer into my caffenol C and it gives a nice boost of contrast where the caffenol is lacking. If your search is unfruitful and he doesn't mention the exact dilutions you might write to les on his website he's a very nice person and I am guessing might be happy to assist you,

If not ... start with 1:10 (rodinal:xtol) for starters and move around from there. the print developer I put in is about 1:100 (dektol or ansco130:caffneol) to give you an idea what I do but print developer is highly active compared to rodinal ... and process for the regular time / agitation you would process your xtol ... if it was me, I'd ditch the rodinal and just use print developer, 20cc/L. and you are in business.
have fun!
John

 

[Donald Qualls]

Classic Photrio. New person asks question about how to do something, piled on with "Don't do that".

What I saw was more like multiple iterations of "why would you" -- for myself, I specifically said it would require testing and I didn't see any advantage, not "don't do it, you'll shoot your eye out, kid!"

 

[relistan]

What I saw was more like multiple iterations of "why would you" -- for myself, I specifically said it would require testing and I didn't see any advantage, not "don't do it, you'll shoot your eye out, kid!"

lol! Fair.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well well well, I just dug up notes from 1998, where I tried Xtol with Rodinol. My last line written says, shortened development time for N. More pronounced grain. The more pronounced grain most likely turned me off. I'm sure I have curves somewhere, too. I'll keep digging.

 

[removedacct1]

From the Unblinking Eye:

"Mixing Rodinal and Xtol
by Sam Elkind

I read with interest the Nov 28th exchange on the BW Film Developing forum about Vit C developers and the Rodinal variation. On that forum, I have on occasion mentioned a blend I use that gives excellent results with (at least) Tri-X, Delta 100, Delta 400, and Verichrome, in both 135 and 120 formats. I think people have an initial reaction that the idea sounds preposterous.

The blend uses both Xtol and Rodinal. The origin for me was that Xtol results were too flat, while Rodinal results were too grainy (no surprise). A couple of years ago, I was searching for an ideal developer and after some tests I settled on this blend. Following is the result of my testing (quantities set to my 500 mL tank):

Xtol = 100 mL
water = 400 mL
Rodinal = 4 to 5 mL

Times @ 24 degrees C. are:
Tri-X (200) = 9 minutes.
Delta 100 = 10.5 minutes.
Verichrome = 8.5 minutes.

This blend may be useful to you and perhaps others. I think you will find the grain is quite acceptable, even in 35mm negs, and that tonality is attractive, especially in highlights. In the context of the exchange on the BW forum, in which you made reference to Gainer's Rodinal variation, I thought you might find this combo of interest."

However, until someone shows me the results of a comparison test with a control, this is all just fiddling with knobs and dials, without rhyme or reason, to see what happens.

 

[Lemale]

Just be carefull with what batch of Xtol you are using. Check the link below.

Karl-Gustaf

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-xtol-trade-concern-announcment.180508/

hah, thanks, I know about this issue, I have some older stock

 

[baachitraka]

It may not be possible to tell exactly which of those developers is really developing the film.

 

[Lemale]

what can you do ? people like what they know and what they are used to, and seeing film is time spent and
you know seconds that already vanished that will never be back again I can understand why someone might
not want to experiment with that whole mixing developers thing but not me . life's too short..

Hi Lemale
Search on Les Mclean website and his posts here, he was someone who used to do it, or he wrote about it at least. I don't use xtol or rodinal but I regularly mix a little bit of print developer into my caffenol C and it gives a nice boost of contrast where the caffenol is lacking. If your search is unfruitful and he doesn't mention the exact dilutions you might write to les on his website he's a very nice person and I am guessing might be happy to assist you,

If not ... start with 1:10 (rodinal:xtol) for starters and move around from there. the print developer I put in is about 1:100 (dektol or ansco130:caffneol) to give you an idea what I do but print developer is highly active compared to rodinal ... and process for the regular time / agitation you would process your xtol ... if it was me, I'd ditch the rodinal and just use print developer, 20cc/L. and you are in business.
have fun!
John

Thanks for advice ! I'll try to reach Les on his website, also, got few responses from flick, good starting point on this experiment

 

[removed account4]

Thanks for advice ! I'll try to reach Les on his website, also, got few responses from flick, good starting point on this experiment

good luck !

 

[pentaxuser]

I'm sure I have curves somewhere, too. I'll keep digging.

You probably have the curves in the wrong places now . I know I have. Like you I tried a lot of digging but the wrong curves still would not budge

pentaxuser

 

[Lemale]

Here are test shots using unlblink eye dilution. 4x5 TMAX 400. Made simple tabletop setup with flowers, haven't come up with a better idea to test how highlights develop. On the first image background is black velvet, damn how good it soaks up the light

 

[Donald Qualls]

Looks successful from here...

 

[pentaxuser]

Classic Photrio. New person asks question about how to do something, piled on with "Don't do that".

Agreed. The OP says that he has seen quite good results from this mixture so I presume he has seen pictures that appealed to him in which he was able to ascertain that the neg was a mixture of Xtol and Rodinal so it is understandable why he wants to see if he can reproduce the "look" he liked.

He will only know if the reason why he liked the look has nothing to do with Xtol when he tries combinations of Rodinal and Xtol and find out for himself. What he finds may indeed confirm his view that this mixture works

That's what counts, isn't it?

pentaxuser

 

[baachitraka]

...perhaps Xtol alone might be doing that job to keep the highlights in check. Good experiment nevertheless.


Other developers that gives luminous highlights are ones which are based on Glycin. For example, Defender 777


You may also try PC-TEA: Grainless and excellent control on highlights.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/pc-tea-questions.137075/#post-1796879 (One of the student: Direct light)

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/pc-tea-questions.137075/#post-1797289