Help me find my dream cam - compact rangefinder with slow speeds & self timer

[hospadar]

Looking for a camera to suit some stuff I want to do, have plenty of good-enough options but still trying to find the perfect thing and wondering if there are cameras out there that I'm not thinking of.

I've been doing a lot of self portraits on the town, often at night and with flash, and I really prefer to have something compact so I'm not lugging a big bag. Must have slow speeds do do available light work in less than ideal settings, must have a built in self-timer, ideally allows for manual aperture control, MUST allow manual shutter speed control. I do a lot of flash stuff in weird places and being able to drag the shutter with long exposures is critical to get the looks I'm going for. I would be willing to compromise on the rangefinder and scale focus/use an external rangefinder. A lens of less than 50mm would be great but I can work with 50mm.

I already have lots of options that are fantastic, and have almost all of those things:
- my grandmother's old leica CL, small, awesome, but no self-timer
- petri color-corrected super 1.9 that I restored a while back. Slow speeds, timer, but a bit chonkier than ideal. Lots of the full-manual 50s rangefinders give me basically the feature set I want, but are too big.
- canonet QL17 GIII - compact, allows full manual, but only goes down to 1/4s
- vivitar 35 (basically a minolta 7sII with GN flash instead of manual aperture) - love it, but only goes to 1/8s and no manual aperture control.
- Pentax MX - not bad, but still fatter than I want. If I sprung the pancake we'd be getting pretty close, but really still bigger than desirable - even with the pancake it's significantly bigger than i.e. a QL17 GIII

Stuff I know of that seems like it kinda fits the bill:
- Retina IIc/IIIc - has everything I want, but kinda big - wish it was as svelte as a IIa and had the wind lever on top.
- Zeiss Ikon Contessa 35 folder - pretty sure at least some of these come with shutters with self timers
- Minolta CLE - would love to have, but not in the budget

I think the dream cam here is like an Olympus RC with slow speeds or a retina IIa with a self timer. A barnack leica or soviet LTM body (I have some) with a self timer isn't bad, but not significantly more compact than the MX. Anything aproaching the size of the MX is basically a no-go, because I'd rather just use the MX in that case (love that thing!)

This is absolutely just a fun toy and not a camera that I need, and the budget here is not extreme, maybe $200 absolute max.

Are there other cameras I'm not thinking of? Cool compact folders I don't know about? Sleeper small rangefinder or viewfinder cams that happen to have slow speeds and a not-so-big form factor?

 

[John Wiegerink]

How much do you love your grandmothers Leica CL? Do you like it enough to spend $25.00 or so? If you do then you are all set. Just go to eBay and search in the cameras and photo section for "screw in self timer". There are plenty of them and they screw right into your CL's shutter release button. They usually allow adjustable times up to 15 seconds or more.

 

[GregY]

Just what John W said.... a screw-in self timer.
I concur...the CL is a great camera!

 

[loccdor]

Good one John, I was going to say that too.

You could also use an Olympus XA (has 10 sec self timer) and change the film speed setting to get your longer exposures. They are very small. Shutter goes to 10 seconds. Allows aperture control and has a sharp 35mm f/2.8.

 

[Paul Howell]

I agree with John Wiegerink that a add on self time is an option. In terms of 70s vintage rangefinder the Konica S2 in manual mode has a shutter speed down to a second, in auto will meter with 1/4, 1/2 as well, has self timer, very good lens. Need to use hearing aid batteries. The manual is online.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I agree with John Wiegerink that a add on self time is an option. In terms of 70s vintage rangefinder the Konica S2 in manual mode has a shutter speed down to a second, in auto will meter with 1/4, 1/2 as well, has self timer, very good lens. Need to use hearing aid batteries. The manual is online.

Yup Paul, there are a ton of good 70's cameras out there like Canon QL17, QL28, Minolta 7, etc.. One really good one is the Yashica GSN with the battery adapter you can get off eBay. Yes, it's auto metering, but the most impressive metering of almost all the 70's and 80's rangefinder cameras. Oh, and the lens on the Yashica GSN is just great. But, like all the cameras from that time period, they are all getting harder to find in good operating condition. That's why I think the OP would be wise to used his granny's working Leica CL with a separate self timer.

 

[4season]

Minoltina-S meets your requirements, but it's not super-common.

Canonet has the advantage of being readily available at modest cost, and what's to prevent you from using "B" for exposure times longer than 1/4 sec?

 

[dynachrome]

It's hard to find the perfect small camera. Some of the ones not mentioned and which I have included the Konica Auto S3 (C35FD), Konica Auto S1.6, Olympus 35RC, Olympus 35RD, Olympus 35 SP, Minolta Hi-Matic 7S. They all have sharp lenses and how well they work will depend on the adjustment of the rangefinder and the overall condition.

 

[Paul Howell]

The Konica S3 lowest shutter speed is 1/8 of a second, OP wants slow speed. Some of the AF point and shoots have slow shutter speeds, but many lack a self timer and need a remote, but if OP could find an Pentax IQ with remote he could use the remote as self timer.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Minoltina-S meets your requirements, but it's not super-common.

Canonet has the advantage of being readily available at modest cost, and what's to prevent you from using "B" for exposure times longer than 1/4 sec?

Canonets in good condition with functional light meter are no longer cheap in USA. The Canon 40mm f/1.7 is superb.

 

[hospadar]

Appreciate the thoughts!

- Love my canonet, but it lacks the slowest speeds.

- I do have a screw-in timer for the CL, but specifically am trying to find something that doesn't require that.

- Olympus SP does seem like a decent option if a little bigger than I would prefer

- Olympus RD forgot about that - only goes down to 1/2 but probably one of the better compromise options

- Minoltina - haven't seen before - lil bigger than a canonet but still fairly petite, relatively stubby fast lens is nice

- XA - I have one, and love it, and have considered it for this situation, but it raises a couple issues: a) can only use it with the A11 flash. I have one and it works, but makes any kind of bounce or interesting flash impossible. b) although it will long-expose in dark settings (and I've used it that way) I still don't really have total control over that, and sometimes a flash will cause it to register that it's received enough light and close the shutter, when really I'd prefer it let the shutter hang open longer to get more background light.

One thing I've considered is doing a manual shutter speed mod on a yashica electro CC. Small body, self timer, manual aperture control. I know folks do this to full-size electros by bypassing the CDS with fixed resistors, seems like something similar could be done - not sure if you could pack it under the top cover or not though. Would be cool to be able to add very long manual speeds (like way more than 1s) and still be able to use the self timer. Not sure I want to take on this project right now but maybe if I find a CC for the right price I'll get it and play around.

 

[retina_restoration]

Get an accessory self-timer. Simple.

The Retina IIc/IIIc types are incredibly compact since they fold closed. I Mean, they fit comfortably in a pants pocket. How much more compact do you need?!

 

[John Wiegerink]

Appreciate the thoughts!

- Love my canonet, but it lacks the slowest speeds.

- I do have a screw-in timer for the CL, but specifically am trying to find something that doesn't require that.

- Olympus SP does seem like a decent option if a little bigger than I would prefer

- Olympus RD forgot about that - only goes down to 1/2 but probably one of the better compromise options

- Minoltina - haven't seen before - lil bigger than a canonet but still fairly petite, relatively stubby fast lens is nice

- XA - I have one, and love it, and have considered it for this situation, but it raises a couple issues: a) can only use it with the A11 flash. I have one and it works, but makes any kind of bounce or interesting flash impossible. b) although it will long-expose in dark settings (and I've used it that way) I still don't really have total control over that, and sometimes a flash will cause it to register that it's received enough light and close the shutter, when really I'd prefer it let the shutter hang open longer to get more background light.

One thing I've considered is doing a manual shutter speed mod on a yashica electro CC. Small body, self timer, manual aperture control. I know folks do this to full-size electros by bypassing the CDS with fixed resistors, seems like something similar could be done - not sure if you could pack it under the top cover or not though. Would be cool to be able to add very long manual speeds (like way more than 1s) and still be able to use the self timer. Not sure I want to take on this project right now but maybe if I find a CC for the right price I'll get it and play around.

Ok, I just thought the Leica CL was already liked by you and would be 100% useable. Since you at doing night time shots have you ever thought about the Yashica Lynx 14? It's not real small, but the f1.4 lens is really very good. The trouble is with the self timer on most of these Japanese Copal shutter rangefinder cameras is usually gummed up and sticky. Good luck in finding when tickles your fancy.

 

[Arthurwg]

Leica IIIF serviced by Ye.

 

[beemermark]

The Olympus 35SP has everything, and more, that you’re looking for. I have one that but haven’t used it in a long time. I should sell it. If I can find it. I think the lens is as good as my 50 Summicron. See the write up on Cameraquest.

 

[cliveh]

Leica IIIF - It's a Barnack Leica, I rest my case.

 

[mtnbkr]

A bunch of the Canon LTM rangefinders fit your requirements. Some of them can be had for very little, especially in non-photography-oriented swapmeet venues such as FB Marketplace.

Most of them are about the size of a Leica III, the larger ones are closer to the M series, but there are a lot of choices in the Leica III size if that isn't too big.

Chris

 

[hospadar]

Another candidate might be a Balda-Werke super-baldina - the collapsible barrel one not the earlier folders. Body isn’t the tiniest but with the lens collapsed it seems pretty packable. Also very affordable.

My current leaning is towards a karat IV - about the same size as a retina iia but built in shutter. The lack of a folding door is too bad but i’m usually toting my cameras in a bag.

A LTM body with a collapsible lens is not a bad choice, but afaik I won’t be able to get anything f2 or faster that collapses (at least not affordably).

I feel like lens protrusion is a bigger problem really than overall body size when it comes to packability

 

[mtnbkr]

Another candidate might be a Balda-Werke super-baldina - the collapsible barrel one not the earlier folders. Body isn’t the tiniest but with the lens collapsed it seems pretty packable. Also very affordable.

My current leaning is towards a karat IV - about the same size as a retina iia but built in shutter. The lack of a folding door is too bad but i’m usually toting my cameras in a bag.

A LTM body with a collapsible lens is not a bad choice, but afaik I won’t be able to get anything f2 or faster that collapses (at least not affordably).

I feel like lens protrusion is a bigger problem really than overall body size when it comes to packability

Canon makes a collapsible 50/1.9. There's a guy locally selling a Canon IVSB with that lens for $155, but it lacks the self-timer you need.

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Chris

 

[GregY]

Appreciate the thoughts!

- Love my canonet, but it lacks the slowest speeds.

- I do have a screw-in timer for the CL, but specifically am trying to find something that doesn't require that.

- Olympus SP does seem like a decent option if a little bigger than I would prefer

- Olympus RD forgot about that - only goes down to 1/2 but probably one of the better compromise options

- Minoltina - haven't seen before - lil bigger than a canonet but still fairly petite, relatively stubby fast lens is nice

- XA - I have one, and love it, and have considered it for this situation, but it raises a couple issues: a) can only use it with the A11 flash. I have one and it works, but makes any kind of bounce or interesting flash impossible. b) although it will long-expose in dark settings (and I've used it that way) I still don't really have total control over that, and sometimes a flash will cause it to register that it's received enough light and close the shutter, when really I'd prefer it let the shutter hang open longer to get more background light.

One thing I've considered is doing a manual shutter speed mod on a yashica electro CC. Small body, self timer, manual aperture control. I know folks do this to full-size electros by bypassing the CDS with fixed resistors, seems like something similar could be done - not sure if you could pack it under the top cover or not though. Would be cool to be able to add very long manual speeds (like way more than 1s) and still be able to use the self timer. Not sure I want to take on this project right now but maybe if I find a CC for the right price I'll get it and play around.

There's always the lllg.....

 

[RezaLoghme]

Appreciate the thoughts!

- Love my canonet, but it lacks the slowest speeds.

- I do have a screw-in timer for the CL, but specifically am trying to find something that doesn't require that.

- Olympus SP does seem like a decent option if a little bigger than I would prefer

- Olympus RD forgot about that - only goes down to 1/2 but probably one of the better compromise options

- Minoltina - haven't seen before - lil bigger than a canonet but still fairly petite, relatively stubby fast lens is nice

- XA - I have one, and love it, and have considered it for this situation, but it raises a couple issues: a) can only use it with the A11 flash. I have one and it works, but makes any kind of bounce or interesting flash impossible. b) although it will long-expose in dark settings (and I've used it that way) I still don't really have total control over that, and sometimes a flash will cause it to register that it's received enough light and close the shutter, when really I'd prefer it let the shutter hang open longer to get more background light.

One thing I've considered is doing a manual shutter speed mod on a yashica electro CC. Small body, self timer, manual aperture control. I know folks do this to full-size electros by bypassing the CDS with fixed resistors, seems like something similar could be done - not sure if you could pack it under the top cover or not though. Would be cool to be able to add very long manual speeds (like way more than 1s) and still be able to use the self timer. Not sure I want to take on this project right now but maybe if I find a CC for the right price I'll get it and play around.

Just to understand:

- Why does it have to be another rangefinder? For self-portraits, is that the right kind of camera?
- I guess for selfies, you are using a tripod? If you are already carrying a tripod and flash, does the size of the camera matter so much?
- Why dont you want to use the CL with additional self-timer?

 

[Craig]

Leica IIIF - It's a Barnack Leica, I rest my case.

You're not going to find one with a lens for $200/£150 which was the OP's budget.

 

[Craig]

You can't get much smaller than a Rollei 35, but I don't know if you can find one in your budget.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

You can't get much smaller than a Rollei 35, but I don't know if you can find one in your budget.

The Rollei 25 is a great little travel camera. But the slowest speed is 1/2 sec., and it does not have a self-timer.

 

[hospadar]

Yeah I had a rollei 35 for a while but god rid of it. Fun mechanical toy, but kinda hated the ergonomics, awful for flash work with the bottom hot shoe (I do lots of flash-on-tripod for which the rollei 35 is a nightmare) no self timer, no rangefinder, awkward meter situation (don't like that it doesn't have an off switch so must be kept in a case or battery will drain). Would much rather use the Vivitar 35 ES or an olympus RC or an XA.