Help me figure out the unknown camera!

Treymac · Nov 7, 2010

Hey guys. I want to uncover the identity of my unknown box camera. I am certain it's a Kodak, but what kind I want to find a manual for it online, but I don't know what kind of camera it is! It's operable, I just don't know what it's shooting at. So I'll post a couple of pics and describe it a bit and hope somebody knows what it is.

It has three apertures, you pull up a metal tab to change. No idea what they apertures are though. It also only has one shutter speed, plus bulb. It takes 120 film. And it has a wire frame finder. Also, the two tabs say T for time (bulb) and G, which slides some sort of extra lens behind the front lens and in front of the aperture arms & shutter arms.

mwdake · Nov 7, 2010

I doubt it is a Kodak.
Probably German; maybe a Balda but they are usually marked or an Errtee?

Paul Sorensen · Nov 7, 2010

Nicer lens than I have on my box cameras, doppel objectiv! I have a Kodak Brownie, much newer that also touts its two element lens.

I would guess it is not a Kodak unless it was made for the German market specifically.

dehk · Nov 7, 2010

Eho-Altissa was a German camera maker based in Dresden. The company started in 1892 as Richard Knoll's "Photo Spezialhaus" in Leipzig. Since 1904 it started repairing and manufacturing photographic supply. In 1910 it moved to Dresden. In 1927 it was taken over in by Emil Hofert and later continued by Berthold Altmann. In the early 1930s the company was successfully making box cameras. The mechanician Karl Heinrich Altmann created the unique "Altissa" box camera line. The company's cameras were sold under brands of warehouses and photo suppliers: Adina (Kaufhof), AKO, Arto, Beier, Errtee (Romain Talbot, Berlin), Fotam, Fotka (Czech), Hamaphot, Hermax, Mantel, Mono, Nebo, Rhaco, RECORD, Rilo, Staufen, and Wara. In 1937 the company launched its only reflex camera Altiflex, and in 1939 its sophisticated 35mm viewfinder camera series Altix.

Maybe that's it.

Treymac · Nov 7, 2010

That sounds like it probably is it, guess I'll never know for sure though :confused:

So does anybody have any idea of what the shutter speed might be on them? Was there a general speed that these cameras mostly were set at? And same for the 3 aperture settings, any idea, set standard sizes?

Thanks again.

edit: that is the camera, Dresden style - http://www.altissa.de/Kameras/boxeneho/box45x60/172a/no/ipage_25.htm

Treymac · Nov 8, 2010

Ok, so I'm going to assume that the shutter is 1/125, that just seems to be the most standard speed. As for the aperture's no idea. But since there are 3 aperture settings, it makes sense that the smallest would be for very sunny days, medium sized would be for overcast, and largest for low light. So I'll do a test with the three apertures, as well as combining that weird swing over lens to see what that does as well.

I found one website in German that I translated using a website, and the pull tab for the swing over glass translated to 'close up'.

edp · Nov 8, 2010

Wide open is f/11 according to the marking on the lens. "Wara Doppelobjektiv 1:11"

My box cameras with rotary shutters are more like 1/25 than 1/125. I've used ISO 100 and 160 film in them in conditions varying from bright sunlit snow scenes to overcast days with no control at all over the exposure, and had no problems. Just don't use transparency film in them.

Treymac · Nov 8, 2010

edp said:
Wide open is f/11 according to the marking on the lens. "Wara Doppelobjektiv 1:11"

By wide open, you mean the small hole right? So what do you think they are most likely, the smallest aperture hole being f5.6, medium hole f8, and smallest hole f11?

Paul Sorensen · Nov 8, 2010

I think edp means the opposite, at least that is what I am reading on the lens. Older lenses often refer to the maximum aperture that way 1: (f number) so a 2.8 lens would be 1:2.8 etc. So, yes, this is a verrrry slow lens. Probably you are looking at f11, 16 and 22. Of course, if he is right that the shutter is something like 1/25th, you will have some pretty dark negs if you shoot in daylight with 100 speed film. Sunny 16 would indicate that with the smallest opening, you should be using 50 speed film. Actually, this makes a lot of sense, as film in the early 20th century was a lot slower. This camera was probably designed for 25 speed film, using that you have sunny 16 at the middle setting, the wide open setting for cloudy days and the smallest setting for faster film. Just guessing here, but I think that 1/25th sec makes a lot of sense given film speed at the time.

I have had a similar experience to edp. I use 125 speed film in my box cameras and get good negs, sometimes a bit dark.

edp · Nov 8, 2010

Paul Sorensen said:
I think edp means the opposite, at least that is what I am reading on the lens.

I have had a similar experience to edp. I use 125 speed film in my box cameras and get good negs, sometimes a bit dark.

Yes, I mean the maximum-diameter aperture.

Colour negative film has enough latitude that you don't really need to care, as long as there's enough light. Black and white faster than ISO 100 might get a bit dense, but will probably be OK.

I took these two snaps in the mountains with a Kodak box camera even more basic than the one pictured here -- no aperture control, just one shutter speed -- on a day that was extremely bright, using Fuji 160s. Worrying about exposure is overcomplicating things, with these cameras.

PS These are scans of index prints, no negatives were scanned to bring you these images.

Treymac · Nov 8, 2010

Wow, crazy, that is a very slow camera. So I think I`m going to probably going to go with 100 iso B&W film, which means I`ll most likely keep it on the smallest aperture at all times. If I do that in a slightly overcast day, I`ll get acceptable results? I guess the only way to really know is to try. Judging from those photo`s of yours, which are awesome, it should be ok.

michaelbsc · Nov 9, 2010

Use Tmax 100 and you\'ll have plenty of latitude.

For my box Brownie I find that Ilford\'s 50 speed is very contrasty making up for the very low contrast lens. I\'ll bet you would find your camera works the same.

Treymac · Nov 10, 2010

michaelbsc said:
Use Tmax 100 and you\'ll have plenty of latitude.

For my box Brownie I find that Ilford\'s 50 speed is very contrasty making up for the very low contrast lens. I\'ll bet you would find your camera works the same.

Don't have any Tmax in the fridge, so I'm going to go with some PanF tomorrow, you've talked to me into it, can't wait, going to take photo's at the Buddhist temple.

Treymac · Nov 10, 2010

I'm just curious, are the odds my camera having a light leak very high?

edp · Nov 10, 2010

I'd guess the body is OK; it's made of sturdy cardboard, so as long as the corners haven't gone a bit soft and dog-eared, it'll probably be fine.

I'd i) stick a piece of black electrical tape over the red window and just peel it back in the shade while winding the film on, and ii) give both sides of the lens a wipe with a cotton bud soaked in alcohol.

BrianL · Nov 10, 2010

The few oldies I've tried with a single speed generally have an "instant" shutter speed in the 1/25th range and an ASA of 10 to 25. Some of these cameras has a lable and others I found oout through experimentation. I doubt an ASA od anything like 100 as that would either not have existed when these came out or been a very high speed film and not some thing for the general public.

Treymac · Nov 10, 2010

Ok, so I went out and shot a roll today at the Buddhist temple. Didn't realize it was only 8 shots, it's 645 format so I image there is going to be a lot of spacing between the shots.

It was quite a sunny day, but there were also a lot of dark shadow areas, so I went with the middle aperture on 50 iso film (Pan F). I did hand hold the camera, but with 1/25th of a second I'm a little worried that they will be blurry. And the lab is closed tomorrow for remembrance day so I won't be able to get in and dev them till Monday.

I also forgot to put tape over the red frame indicator, but no direct light was on it. That's about it, now I'm going to buy some jam.

Paul Sorensen · Nov 10, 2010

A box camera like that is almost always 6X9, I don't think I have seen a version that was 645. Basically, the frame size is a little less than the size of the back of the thing, in other words, large. Eight would be correct for 6X9.

Treymac · Nov 10, 2010

Paul Sorensen said:
A box camera like that is almost always 6X9, I don't think I have seen a version that was 645. Basically, the frame size is a little less than the size of the back of the thing, in other words, large. Eight would be correct for 6X9.

6x9 would be kind of cool, but how do you get prints done? Our lab isn't set up for 6x9, are many pro labs capable of doing prints that size?

The only thing i can think of is doing it on a 4x5 carrier, except there would be light bleeding out of the sides of film, and I'd have to come up with some way to block that.

edit: it is 6x9, just looked at it. The reason I thought it was 645 was because of this page: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translat...a/no/ipage_25.htm&lp=el_en&btnTrUrl=Translate It is a camera very similar to mine, but in the description it says Format: 45x60 auf 120-er Film

Help me figure out the unknown camera!

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