Help me choose a new camera - rugged, old or new.

Hi all.

I'm at a loss as to what camera to get. For the last 5-10 years I've been choosing cameras on a whim, not really making considered purchases. I now have a collection of cameras I enjoy, or don't, but I don't have one that does what I need.

- I shoot an odd collection of things. Abandoned places, industrial landscape, street, and family.
- My eyesight is getting worse so autofocus is essential. It doesn't have to be blazing fast.
- I shoot in all weather conditions, including in pouring (very heavy) rain sometimes under an umbrella but sometimes just in the rain.
- Recently I bought a Hasselblad 500cm and will be buying a digital back for it in due course, but while that taught me I'm happy with a bigger camera I'll never take that out in the rain.
- I want to go higher than 24mp but honestly couldn't say why. I never crop, as in never. No real reason, I just compose in camera. So while not essential, higher resolution would be nice.
- IBIS is a nice to have, not essential.
- Build quality is 100% essential. I shoot in random places and sometimes have to climb to get to the shot, so I hike through abandoned places and areas.
- I'd like a decent hand grip.

I was thinking Leica SL2 but unless I can find a working beater, it feels like a shame. I don't baby my gear. I have a Leica M10 currently, which is my street and family camera. I have an XPro 3 which I use in the rain, when I'm in London commuting, or just when I want a very easy to shoot camera with me that if it gets stolen or damaged doesn't matter too much. I also love not having a screen. I have a classic 5D Mk.1 which I love, the colours are something special but the resolution is low and it's not weather sealed.

Out of my cameras the 5D feels the best to hold in terrible weather. And with gloves. So I was thinking a more modern 5D or even a 1D or a Nikon D whatever.

What do you all suggest? Any details I missed? Thanks


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EDIT: The Nikon D850 is a possible winner. Certainly rugged enough. Good battery life. Good selection of lenses.

Depending on the budget, full frame hard to beat Nikon D800, Pentax K1, in mirrorless, Sony A7, higher resolution A9. Although discontinued at 48MP, rugged build, fast capture, good AF the Sony A99II. it is not a true mirrorless or a true DSLR, uses a translucent mirror. On the + side can use any of the many Minolta/Sony A mount lens including SSM G and Zeiss in A mount. The translucent mirror acts as a dust barrier. It is on the larger size, but can she shot without the battery grip. I have the 2 generations back A900, 24MP, no live view no video, but prices has come down in the used market. I am wedded to Minolta Sony A mount system, if I were going to it all over I would have Canon. Lots of good bodies, many lens, L glass, some of the best on the planet. I shoot both film and digital so a Elan 3 or 1V, with a cropped sensor and full frame sensor body would have worked out. My older Minolta film cameras will not work SSM lens.

I have a Fujifilm X-T2 which is pretty old...the line now goes to the X-T5. It sports an L bracket with a bit of an extra bulge for the right hand to grip.

If pressured, I'd have to say the two favourite things are:

1) it has old time, external, knurled ISO & shutter speed dials, and most lenses have aperture rings so that in manual mode it pretty much acts & feels in the hands like a 35mm camera from 50 years ago, and

2) it's mirrorless, so when in manual mode all changes to the settings are shown in the viewfinder.

I live on the north coast of BC, Canada, where it can be very wet and occasionally fairly cold...no issues.

Prints made on our Epson P600 (via Capture One) to 11x14 and metal prints we've had made to 16x20 don't appear to exhibit digital artifact weirdnesses sometimes seen in other peoples prints.

Very happy, and would get an X-T5 next if buying a new digital camera rather than one from another brand.

I have these "rainsleeves" for my Hasselblad. It will work better if you use a 45° PME or Prism.

Paul Howell said:

full frame hard to beat Nikon D800

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I was leaning towards the D850 as it ticks all the boxes. Only thing stopping me pulling the plug is Nikon colour. I cannot stand working for hours in Photolab or Lightroom, and Nikon colours don't do it for me. I'm seeing if I can rent a D850 for a week to try it out, none in stock near me. I've downloaded some RAW files from the camera and yeah, not loving them or how they work in post. But I'm in no rush and if I could solve this, the body for sure is winning. I'd have to invest in all new lenses, although I only need a couple.

Paul Howell said:

Sony A7

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Have a Sony A7iii. I rarely use it. Lets the water in like a sieve, colours are terrible. I don't trust it. I have it on my copy stand to scan film, which it seems to do well. I'll leave it there, aligned and locked in place. Maybe one day it'll get used in anger again, but I doubt it.

Paul Howell said:

if I were going to it all over I would have Canon. Lots of good bodies, many lens, L glass, some of the best on the planet.

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I know that the output of Canon is what I like colour wise. I'm just not sure if I trust them to stand up to the weather. When I say I shoot in rain, I mean standing under a hose pipe rain. I love it, it adds a special something. I don't aim for technical perfection with my photography, I like the photo to feel like how it felt to be at the place. And I'm depressive so... But I did watch a video of the 5D IV getting soaked and it was fine. And I have some glass for it. I'll rent one and download some RAW files to see how they work.

MurrayMinchin said:

and would get an X-T5 next if buying a new digital camera rather than one from another brand.

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I had entirely forgotten about other Fuji cameras. I'll look into the 5. I have lenses already so it's cheaper. I'll see if I can hold one, or see if I can rent one. I want to know it'll cope. My X-Pro 3 is supposedly weather sealed, and yesterday that let the water in. And I was under an umbrella.

Sirius Glass said:

I have these "rainsleeves" for my Hasselblad.

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Not sure they'll work for a WLF but I'll grab and try some. Thanks for the heads up, I'd forgotten I used to make these bags from shopping bags years ago. They used to get condensation inside but they kept the worst off. Changing film in a bag was fun, I used to put spare rolls in then tie it up, they'd roll around until needed

Local camera dealers have told me the Fuji weather sealing is as good as useless, and to avoid even mist and light rain. So that's out.

P1505 said:

... My X-Pro 3 is supposedly weather sealed, and yesterday that let the water in. And I was under an umbrella.

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Were you using a WR rated Fujinon lens? No problems with mine.

MurrayMinchin said:

Were you using a WR rated Fujinon lens? No problems with mine.

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Yep, and didnt change the lens during the day. It got past the seal on the lens.

my "bad weather" digital is a Nikon AW1. Its designed to be submersible to about 15 meters. I don't scuba or anything like that, but if I have to pull out a camera in the middle of the rain, that one is less likely to get damaged. They're 12 mp, adn their sensot is small

5D Mk4, you mentioned you have a 5D but not sure which version. You can find them used for a song, they're dependable, water resistant, tough and boring. They'll deliver the photo you need every single time without complaint. There's a reason why I carry two in my gig bag and most of my peers didn't move up to mirrorless. Lenses are plentiful and affordable and still some of the best lenses ever made. You can adapt just about any classic lens to it too if you're feeling brave.

Boring, available and still has top of the line IQ.

I’m looking at either the 5D IV or the D850.

You seem to have ample funds. Look for a Leica S3. High enough resolution, autofocus, weatherproof. All the lenses are outstanding, too. No IBIS or VR lenses, a tripod comes in handy.

P1505 said:

Local camera dealers have told me the Fuji weather sealing is as good as useless, and to avoid even mist and light rain. So that's out.

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I suggest you stop talking to your local dealers then, they must be spending way too much time in a local pub.

P1505 said:

I’m looking at either the 5D IV or the D850.

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In terms of price, the Pentax K1 uses the same Sony sensor as the D800 and 850. Pentax has no plans on going mirrorless and plans to be the last "Man" standing producing DSLRs. In terms of color I'm quite happy with my Sony 900 and 77II, I spend very little time color correction. Then again I quite like the color on my very old Pentax K2000, so what do I know.

Hassasin said:

I suggest you stop talking to your local dealers then, they must be spending way too much time in a local pub.

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I can’t speak from experience just from what I was told, which is they’ve had more than a few cameras sent back to Fuji for internal repairs after rain exposure.

P1505 said:

I can’t speak from experience just from what I was told, which is they’ve had more than a few cameras sent back to Fuji for internal repairs after rain exposure.

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They said something and you said "it's out" because of what they said, and that is a very low bar.

Fuji would have been long out of business (making great cameras) if people were taking this approach to making purchase decisions.

What you're looking for is none of the cameras mentioned, you need a Nikonos like water resistance.

P1505 said:

Hi all.

I'm at a loss as to what camera to get. For the last 5-10 years I've been choosing cameras on a whim, not really making considered purchases. I now have a collection of cameras I enjoy, or don't, but I don't have one that does what I need.

- I shoot an odd collection of things. Abandoned places, industrial landscape, street, and family.
- My eyesight is getting worse so autofocus is essential. It doesn't have to be blazing fast.
- I shoot in all weather conditions, including in pouring (very heavy) rain sometimes under an umbrella but sometimes just in the rain.
- Recently I bought a Hasselblad 500cm and will be buying a digital back for it in due course, but while that taught me I'm happy with a bigger camera I'll never take that out in the rain.
- I want to go higher than 24mp but honestly couldn't say why. I never crop, as in never. No real reason, I just compose in camera. So while not essential, higher resolution would be nice.
- IBIS is a nice to have, not essential.
- Build quality is 100% essential. I shoot in random places and sometimes have to climb to get to the shot, so I hike through abandoned places and areas.
- I'd like a decent hand grip.

I was thinking Leica SL2 but unless I can find a working beater, it feels like a shame. I don't baby my gear. I have a Leica M10 currently, which is my street and family camera. I have an XPro 3 which I use in the rain, when I'm in London commuting, or just when I want a very easy to shoot camera with me that if it gets stolen or damaged doesn't matter too much. I also love not having a screen. I have a classic 5D Mk.1 which I love, the colours are something special but the resolution is low and it's not weather sealed.

Out of my cameras the 5D feels the best to hold in terrible weather. And with gloves. So I was thinking a more modern 5D or even a 1D or a Nikon D whatever.

What do you all suggest? Any details I missed? Thanks


----


EDIT: The Nikon D850 is a possible winner. Certainly rugged enough. Good battery life. Good selection of lenses.

Click to expand...

I think You should probably stick with your Hasselblad; too bad they don't offer AF but you may be happier with a different finder and the best screen to focus

Hassasin said:

They said something and you said "it's out" because of what they said, and that is a very low bar.

Fuji would have been long out of business (making great cameras) if people were taking this approach to making purchase decisions.

What you're looking for is none of the cameras mentioned, you need a Nikonos like water resistance.

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I don’t think so. If three shops each have had to return cameras due to water ingress, all from one manufacturer, I’d say that’s a trend emerging. Fuji don’t warranty cameras against it either, as far as I’ve been told.

Nikon and Canon do. Sony does not.

RalphLambrecht said:

I think You should probably stick with your Hasselblad; too bad they don't offer AF but you may be happier with a different finder and the best screen to focus

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You could be right. Digital back plus rain cover could work out. I’ll test it with a film back this weekend, we are due rain and I just discovered a new moody industrial split to walk around.

If AF is priority then how about a Pentax AF 645D

P1505 said:

I’m looking at either the 5D IV or the D850.

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I'm on team Canon here. The 5D4 is a beast, it has a massive infrastructure and it's a fully mature technology. It's the last of it's kind too in some ways. It's not a 'fun' camera or hip. It's simple to use and navigate around, very customizable and very boring. But it gets the job done every single time you need it to. It just works.

I've done paid work with just the 5D4 and a 50 1.8 'cause all my lenses were fogged up. On paper the camera might be middling, people like to call it a disappointment when it came out. I think Canon did exactly what a working photographer needed with the mk4. And then just the 70-200 2.8 alone makes getting into the EOS system worth it. That is the lens of all time.

I'm going to make an assumption; since you have a Canon dslr, you have a Canon lens or two right? To me that makes Canon the obvious choice. I find it refreshingly odd that you're contemplating a jump over to Nikon. Obviously, they're a solid camera maker, but usually people stick with one or the other for a favorite lens (there's likely an adapter these days), or they're super comfortable with the user experience and don't have to fiddle around or look at the camera to find the needed buttons. If you can cross platforms with no fumbling, good on you. If you threw a modern Nikon at me tomorrow, I could probably make an image with it in full auto mode, but anything more, and I would need the user's manual.

Hey, quick update. On phone so typos and missing details, happy to fill in later.

I spent all day yesterday walking from shop to shop in London, and on the phone to stores further afield, before I eventually called a large camera rental business.

It left me with a boring choice and feeling conflicted.

The general consensus among the shops was that they have more failures overall with Fuji gear and spend more time dealing with the Fuji rep on returns than Canon or Nikon. This is across the entire range not just the X-T5. Each shop told me to ignore the Fuji website (especially “that picture”) and treat the cameras like they can take a brief bit of rain but carry a cloth with you and when you can take the lens off and dry them. They have more failures on the Fuji bodies than the lenses and almost always it is the main board failing. No doubt though that the X-T5 is a superb camera, super fast and accurate.

According to the shops, the order of things going wrong is Fuji, Canon, then Nikon. The numbers are small, that needs to be said. They also said if a Nikon goes wrong the service department is awful compared to Canon. All three shops said the same thing, no bias. All are well known.

I got to try all three cameras I was looking at. The EVF and seeing the exposure live in the Fuji is fantastic but I was losing confidence in the build, and that biased me.

The Nikon is heavy, the Canon is lovely. The Nikon sensor is amazing though, the recovery if you mess up exposure is immense. The Canon looks better out of camera, I do really like Canon colours. However Nikon is super close now, and at higher ISO the Nikon noise is like grain. Honestly for stills the Nikon wins, and I never shoot video so the Nikon is the obvious choice. Higher resolution, better build, great colours, better noise etc. But my gut is saying Canon, my head is saying Nikon.

I then had a coffee and Googled rental cameras.

When speaking to the rental company they said for reliability in bad weather go Nikon. If it breaks the service will take weeks or months compared to Canons days. But it is very unlikely to fail. They have never had a D850 fail (aside from one dropped from a crane), they’ve had “a few” 5D IVs fail due to “water and weather” but they rent out many more and the camera has been out longer. It’s a close call. On Fuji they rarely rent them out so couldn’t say much.

So I’m now going to look at lenses. I’ll be shooting 24, 35, 50. I rarely go longer and I don’t like zooms. The lenses will choose for me.

On that note the weather sealing on Nikon and Canon lenses real world is apparently very similar, so it’s more down to cost and output for my decision.

Meantime today I’m shooting the Hasselblad with a plastic bag over it. Due to pour down in a few

Cholentpot said:

cause all my lenses were fogged up

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Why were they fogged up? Just condensation? Was it temporary?