Help: infitniy focus with 9x12 Unknow beauty

Gimenosaiz · May 8, 2018

Hello!

I received an unexpected gif last week A beautifull unnamed 9x12 glass plate camera.
The only reference I can recognize are the manufacturers of the shutter: AGC; and the lens, a Scheneider Radionar 135/4.5 of 1928.
I'd like to use the focus scale as much as possible but I'm sure that it needs to be adjusted. I mean, it seems to have been unmounted and mounted again because the infinity doesn't aims at the camera. So I've tried to adjust it to mount it again correctly but there is something I'm not sure about. I'm trying to find focus using the ground glass that, by the way, it's not cristal clear at all!!!. The question is that I need to extend too much the bellows to find focus at infinity wich is something strange if I compare it with my Pacemaker and its Optar 135/27. And if I use that infinity focus point as a reference, if I try to focus an object at 1 meter the reference in the scale is completly wrong at that distance. The same for 2 meters ... So, the focus scale is not realiable at all.
What do you think?

1.

2.

Thank you in advance !
Cheers
Antonio

BradS · May 8, 2018

It doesn't look like there are any infinity stops on the rails...???

I guess (only a guess) you could...
1. use the focus knob to fully retract the focusing rail...
and then set the rail position so that the scal says infinity and lock the rail in position
2. loosen the clamp that holds the front upright to the focus rail.
3. without moving the rail, slide the front upright to focus on something far, far away (infinity?)
4. now clamp the front upright to the focus rail and focus on somethign one meter away as a check
???

Nodda Duma · May 8, 2018

For infinity focus use a ruler to measure and move the lens out to about 135mm from the image plane. That will get you close.

Gimenosaiz · May 8, 2018

BradS said:
It doesn't look like there are any infinity stops on the rails...???

I guess (only a guess) you could...
1. use the focus knob to fully retract the focusing rail...
and then set the rail position so that the scal says infinity and lock the rail in position
2. loosen the clamp that holds the front upright to the focus rail.
3. without moving the rail, slide the front upright to focus on something far, far away (infinity?)
4. now clamp the front upright to the focus rail and focus on somethign one meter away as a check
???

Hello!
Thank you.
Those are the steps I followed ... once I check that extending 135mm the bellows didn't give focus.

Thank you very much!
Kind regards from Spain.
Antonio

Gimenosaiz · May 8, 2018

Nodda Duma said:
For infinity focus use a ruler to measure and move the lens out to about 135mm from the image plane. That will get you close.

Hello!!

That was my first choice !!

Thank you very much!
Kind regards from Spain.
Antonio

BradS · May 8, 2018

Perhaps, the scale is for some other focal length?

paul ron · May 9, 2018

why not just make your own scale? lay a piece of tape down at the indicator and do your own calibrations.

do you have or use a range finder? very useful tool.

summicron1 · May 9, 2018

I'm sitting here with one of these right now -- did you pull the lens/shutter standard all the way out, until it locks into place? There's a small knob on the left rail (as you look down from the top of the camera with the camera facing away from you) that the bed has to slip over and engage. That is the infinity stop that folks here are talking about.

when I do that my camera is very close to infinity -- i have to focus it out another 1/4 inch or so, not sure why but the thing is 100 years old and may be cranky.

bdial · May 9, 2018

My ICA 9x12 is similar to summicron1's in that you just need to pull the standard out until it stops. I've not explored to see if the stops are adjustable (presumably they are).

As to the OP's problem, if the bellows is out to near the lens's focal length, and there is no focus to be found, then the lens may have been disassembled and put together wrong or otherwise compromised.

mnemosyne · May 10, 2018

bdial said:
As to the OP's problem, if the bellows is out to near the lens's focal length, and there is no focus to be found, then the lens may have been disassembled and put together wrong or otherwise compromised.

I agree, if the lens to screen distance is set close to the focal length and you cannot get a sharp image on the gg at +/- 1 centimeter from there, then very likely something is wrong with the lens. It could be spacing between front and rear cells or a missing element or It could have been disassebmled and re-assembled with the elements in the wrong order or orientation, although this is difficult to imagine with a simple lens like the Radionar (a triplet design, IIRC).

Gimenosaiz · May 10, 2018

BradS said:
Perhaps, the scale is for some other focal length?

Hello!
No, I mean, the focal length seems to be the same (the scale shows 135mm).

Thanks
Antonio

paul ron said:
why not just make your own scale? lay a piece of tape down at the indicator and do your own calibrations.
do you have or use a range finder? very useful tool.

Hello!
I will make it but first off all I need to know if the lens is ok.
I use a a rangefinder with several cameras, including a Pacemaker SpeedGraphic ;-)
Thank you!!
Antonio

summicron1 said:
I'm sitting here with one of these right now -- did you pull the lens/shutter standard all the way out, until it locks into place? There's a small knob on the left rail (as you look down from the top of the camera with the camera facing away from you) that the bed has to slip over and engage. That is the infinity stop that folks here are talking about.

when I do that my camera is very close to infinity -- i have to focus it out another 1/4 inch or so, not sure why but the thing is 100 years old and may be cranky.

Hello!
I'm afraid that there isn't infinity stop in this camera. My Pacemaker has that lock that I set to be able to use the rangefinder ... but this little beauti hasn't!

Thanks
Antonio

bdial said:
My ICA 9x12 is similar to summicron1's in that you just need to pull the standard out until it stops. I've not explored to see if the stops are adjustable (presumably they are).
As to the OP's problem, if the bellows is out to near the lens's focal length, and there is no focus to be found, then the lens may have been disassembled and put together wrong or otherwise compromised.

mnemosyne said:
I agree, if the lens to screen distance is set close to the focal length and you cannot get a sharp image on the gg at +/- 1 centimeter from there, then very likely something is wrong with the lens. It could be spacing between front and rear cells or a missing element or It could have been disassebmled and re-assembled with the elements in the wrong order or orientation, although this is difficult to imagine with a simple lens like the Radionar (a triplet design, IIRC).

Hello!
A compromised lens is my bet!
Although the main pain is the ground glass -I can hardly focus or try, hehe, to close objects- I have shot four pics.
I'll show you this evening (Spain time).
Thank you!
Antonio

Gimenosaiz · May 10, 2018

Hello!

I think that the lens has issues.
Look at the pictures: halos, lack of contrast and, blurry edges and corners and a strange swirly bokeh.
These images reminds me of the first photographs I shot with my Primoplan. It had been dismounted and wrongly mounted!

1.

2.

IBSOR_Fom100_HC110h_037_197 by Antonio Test, en Flickr

3. Swirly bokeh ???

IBSOR_Fom100_HC110h_037_200 by Antonio Test, en Flickr

4. I'm not sure what this artifacts are these:

IBSOR_Fom100_HC110h_037_199 by Antonio Test, en Flickr

What do you think??
Thank you!
Cheers

paul ron · May 10, 2018

your lens has issues. ill bet an element was put in upside down or maybe missing something like shims.

shutterfinger · May 10, 2018

this is a common triplet lens diagram. some have the center element reversed, some have the center element closer to one of the outer elements. light travels in the direction of the arrow. shutter and aperture blades are usually in front of the center element.
the front and rear cells may be reversed.

Ground glass- remove to from its frame, wash it in warm water with dish detergent using your finger tips only to rub the surfaces. rinse in clean water then in a weak photoflo solution, dry with a clean, lint free towel or stand on edge and allow to air dry. reinstall with the ground side toward the lens. Handle by the edges only.

Gimenosaiz · May 10, 2018

paul ron said:
your lens has issues. ill bet an element was put in upside down or maybe missing something like shims.

shutterfinger said:
View attachment 200383
this is a common triplet lens diagram. some have the center element reversed, some have the center element closer to one of the outer elements. light travels in the direction of the arrow. shutter and aperture blades are usually in front of the center element.
the front and rear cells may be reversed.

Ground glass- remove to from its frame, wash it in warm water with dish detergent using your finger tips only to rub the surfaces. rinse in clean water then in a weak photoflo solution, dry with a clean, lint free towel or stand on edge and allow to air dry. reinstall with the ground side toward the lens. Handle by the edges only.

Hello!
Yes, you are rigth ... paul ron and shutterfinger.
I've dismounted the lens and I've seen that the shim that helps to support the front element was wrongly placed before that element!! This also seemed to force the second element to be mounted upside down. I think I've mounted it correctly now because I think I can focus at infitnity extending the bellows around 137mm !!!
It's close night in Spain, I'll check it tomorrow ;-)

shutterfinger said:
Ground glass- remove to from its frame, wash it in warm water with dish detergent using your finger tips only to rub the surfaces. rinse in clean water then in a weak photoflo solution, dry with a clean, lint free towel or stand on edge and allow to air dry. reinstall with the ground side toward the lens. Handle by the edges only.

I'll try this tomorrow!

Both, all : Thank you very much for your help!!

Regards
Antonio

summicron1 · May 10, 2018

WOW, you do realize, do you not, that that sort of swirly bokeh would cost you and arm and a leg if you bought it from the Lomo folks -- the have highly priced lenses specifically designed to give that effect.

You got it for free, and you're complaining?

Pretty girl, by the way. She makes light happy.

Gimenosaiz · May 13, 2018

summicron1 said:
WOW, you do realize, do you not, that that sort of swirly bokeh would cost you and arm and a leg if you bought it from the Lomo folks -- the have highly priced lenses specifically designed to give that effect.

You got it for free, and you're complaining?

Pretty girl, by the way. She makes light happy.

Hello!!

I know your are right But I've enough of "artifacts" with the AeroEktar !! (a several oldies for 135mm).

My elder daughter is my light ;-)

Kind regards!
Antonio

Gimenosaiz · May 13, 2018

Hello!

It seems that the lens is now ok

1.

2.

My father volunteered for this test

Thank you for your help!!!!!

Un abrazo,
Antonio

summicron1 · May 14, 2018

nice shots.

how are you loading film into that camera.. do you have the film holders? I don't h ave any for my camera.

Gimenosaiz · May 14, 2018

summicron1 said:
nice shots.

how are you loading film into that camera.. do you have the film holders? I don't h ave any for my camera.

Hello!

Thank you!
The camera includes film holders. I´ve purchased the steaths.

Kind regards
Antonio

Help: infitniy focus with 9x12 Unknow beauty

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