Help identifying problem please!

ajmiller · Feb 16, 2010

Can anyone please help identify the problem at the top third of this picture, especially noticeable at the top of the tree on the left hand side, sort of where the tree trunk goes lighter. I'm using my Mamiya c330s with a standard 80mm lens. It only happens on certain images, is noticeable on the negative and has happened with both lab processed and my own processing.
Could it be flare, as it's only on certain photos and not others?
Could it be a light leak?

Any help appreciated.

thanks

Rick A · Feb 16, 2010

Most likely flare. I think if it were a light leak it would be consistant on all exposures.

Rick

MikeSeb · Feb 16, 2010

Agree with Rick. Looks like flare.

ajmiller · Feb 16, 2010

Thanks for the speedy replies.
Weird how I've never had the problem before.
Thanks again.

Tony

Joachim_I · Feb 16, 2010

Certainly flare. If you use a filter, better remove it. Otherwise there is not much you can do about it if you shoot against some bright light.

ajmiller · Feb 16, 2010

I have a lens hood for the 80mm, but as I never had the problem before I've never used it. I'll start using it, see if it improves things. Thanks

Bruce Watson · Feb 16, 2010

Oddly enough, that looks like a kind of flare I've seen in scanning. It comes from all the surfaces in the light path not being really clean. A bit of humidity haze can do it, as can a thin and perfectly smooth coating of oil (like a finger print that's been smeared with a microfiber lens cleaning cloth). This can certainly come from filters (UV haze filter used to protect the lens, warming filters, etc.). And of course it can come from an under performing lens coating as well, and there are myriad other sources too numerous to mention. I'm just sayin' my bet is that something in the light path isn't perfectly clean.

bdial · Feb 16, 2010

Looks like flare to me too, it's a little odd that it is separated that much from the sun, which looks like it was pretty diffuse.
It could be a reflection from something in the bellows or around the film gate. You might want to take a look in the camera to see if there is anything that doesn't belong.
From what you've posted, it doesn't look like any density extends beyond the film gate, correct?

RalphLambrecht · Feb 16, 2010

Joachim_I said:
Certainly flare. If you use a filter, better remove it. Otherwise there is not much you can do about it if you shoot against some bright light.

I agree. Check your filter! Does it need a cleaning?

Mike1234 · Feb 16, 2010

Could be condensation on the lens or filter too.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 16, 2010

Mike1234 said:
Could be condensation on the lens or filter too.

good point

ajmiller · Feb 17, 2010

Mike1234 said:
Could be condensation on the lens or filter too.

Interesting! I don't use a filter on the lens and it isn't on every exposure so I'm wondering if it could be condensation. It has been cold when I've been out and about.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tony

Ian Grant · Feb 17, 2010

It's the kind of flare never seen with most modern Multi-coated lenses but it does seem to happen with some older coated lenses, I get it with my Yashicamat 124 sometimes (with a lens hood) and there's nothing you can do to prevent it as you're shooting straight at the bright sky.

It's just detectable in this shot.

I don't remember ever having an issue with my coated 80mm Sekor on my C33, check how clean the lens is, slight surfaces scratches/cleaning marks are enough to cause this too, or slight internal haze.

Ian

unclemack · Feb 17, 2010

Flare is certainly a possibility but I don't think a light leak can be ruled out yet.
Pinholes in bellows can cause light leaks which don't affect film rebates, so can lens mount issues. Light leaks don't necessarily affect every frame either - bellows extension, hand position, direction of light, time the frame spends in the gate - all can be relevant.
I've even seen ghost images caused by pinholes in bellows.
It's easy enough to test for light leaks and this would be my next check if a thorough examination of the negs and a quick visual inspection of the camera & lens were inconclusive.

Ian Grant · Feb 17, 2010

That's classic flare unclemack. The large area of very bright sky in the middle/top is the give away. Light leaks would affect a high proportion of the images.

I had a brand new Multi-coated Hoya 28mm lens, in the 70's, that flared like that despite it's claimed coating, it was very sharp but unusable if the sun wasn't directly behind, and even on a cloudy day flared if there was bright sky in the frame. The whole Hoya lens range disappeared because of these problems.

Ian

Mike1234 · Feb 17, 2010

ajmiller said:
Interesting! I don't use a filter on the lens and it isn't on every exposure so I'm wondering if it could be condensation. It has been cold when I've been out and about.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tony

With a TLR you're probably using the built-in magnifier with the waist level viewer, right? With your face so close to the lenses your own breath could be the culprit. It's even possible to fog lenses with your warm hands as you adjust the shutter or aperture.

You didn't use your breath to blow off any dust specs, right?

FWIW, it doesn't look like ordinary lens flare nor pin hole leaks to me.

ajmiller · Feb 17, 2010

@Mike1234 - good points here (although I don't recall cleaning the lens with my breath )

I'm still a bit confused why it seems to have started happening recently although I have a feeling it may be a combination of things mentioned here.

Anyway thanks for all the replies and advice.

- Tony

Mike1234 · Feb 17, 2010

The colder and damper it gets the greater the chance for fog. Leave the camera out for five minutes and it gets cold. Put it inside your jacket to warm it up and steam from your body will collect on the cold camera... yet another source of fog caused by condensation.

unclemack · Feb 20, 2010

Ian, I'm looking at the white line, top left vertical edge of the rebate. This appears to me to be reflected light from (possibly) the lower film roller and I can't think how flare from the lens can reach the roller at that intensity.
Unless it's an artifact and not actually on the negative. The same may be true of the small vertical scratch I can see.
I tried not to jump to conclusions but to arrive at a certain diagnosis before proceeding with repairs - but then I'm 10 years retired from camera repair and forgetting more every day.

Mike1234 · Feb 20, 2010

Occam's razor...

Ian Grant · Feb 20, 2010

Good point but that's 90 degrees to the rollers, however I was out shooting 2 days ago and came across a similar lighting condition for a short spell, and shooting into the light was impossible.

In the shot in question the shadows are soft yet the top centre of the image is heavily burnt out, but it's not like bright sunlight it's more a wall of light.

What I found while shooting on Thursday, a bright mostly sunny day was some slight cloud suddenly took the blue sky reading from from Zone VI to about zone XI/XII, that's before taking into account the actual lighting on the subject had dropped. I suddenly had that wall of light behind what I was photographing. When the cloud passed I could shoot again despite the bright direct sunlight only just being out of the frame.

It's harder to describe than the reality.

Ian

Mike1234 · Feb 20, 2010

Ian, I understand what you're saying. But the OP's images don't appear to have a similar problem. It REALLY looks like a steamed lens to me.

Ian Grant · Feb 20, 2010

Mike1234 said:
Ian, I understand what you're saying. But the OP's images don't appear to have a similar problem. It REALLY looks like a steamed lens to me.

Mike, believe me the OP's image shows the EXACT problem I'm describing and had to dodge out on the example I posted.

If the lens was steamed up then it's rather a coincidence it just happens to match the heavily overexposed area of sky

Ian

Mike1234 · Feb 20, 2010

Ian Grant said:
Mike, believe me the OP's image shows the EXACT problem I'm describing and had to dodge out on the example I posted.

If the lens was steamed up then it's rather a coincidence it just happens to match the heavily overexposed area of sky

I'm not always right, Ian, but often am. We'll see...

paul ron · Feb 21, 2010

Has this happend to other pics from that camera in different situations?

Help identifying problem please!

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