Help Identifying Lenses

Snagged these 3 massive lenses at a garage sale over the weekend. Can't find anything about them online. They look military? Raptars, 6", 12" and 24" 4 1/2" X 4 1/2"
Greg

Likely the big one at least is an aerial lens. Probably all 3. Better pics would help. Looks like one has a speed graphic board attached already.

Sorry about the pic. Here's a better one. Yeah, I thought maybe aerial or reconnaissance, but couldn't find a reference to a 4 1/2" camera?

Process camera lens possibly.

The olive drab paint color might be a hint?

What's the matter, Greg? Each lens is engraved with its name, focal length and maximum aperture. Maker, too. Can't you read? And can't you take a picture that contains this information?

Why the anger toward the OP?

Dan Fromm said:

What's the matter, Greg? Each lens is engraved with its name, focal length and maximum aperture. Maker, too. Can't you read? And can't you take a picture that contains this information?

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Dan, I think he just doesn't understand what he is reading. He thinks the 4 1/2" lens is for a 4 1/2" camera and not the focal length of the lens.

Except that two of the lenses are clearly marked 4 1/2" x 4 1/2"; apparently for a 5" rollfilm camera?

To clarify, the focal lengths are 6", 12" and 24". referring to the 4 1/2" sq as it states on the lenses, I was referring to the film format of the camera. I didn't see any aerial cameras listed in google results in 5"? just 9" and 2.5" So curious if I'd found something more unusual??? or so mundane not even google cares.
Might be fun to build a quick sliding box plywood 4 x 5 camera to use these with...

Sure glad there is the "ignore list" feature.

winterclock said:

Except that two of the lenses are clearly marked 4 1/2" x 4 1/2"; apparently for a 5" rollfilm camera?

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Ok. I didn't see that. I went by the text. My bad.

When you get them try them out and let us know how they perform. It would be interesting to know the lens construction and if they are multicoated. How fast are they. What kind of mounting do they have? Are you selling them or do you have a project in mind?

Old-N-Feeble said:

Why the anger toward the OP?

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He asked a reasonable question, gave us information that can't be used to answer it. Cruel. I could add more adjectives, but that one's enough.

As has already been mentioned, 4.5" x 4.5" is a USAF (NATO forces, more generally) aerial camera format. Cameras that shot it used 5" roll film.

USAF often bought similar lenses (same focal length and maximum aperture) from several suppliers.

USAF's 6"/2.8 lenses that covered 4.5" x 4.5" came from a number of makers, including Aerojet Delft, Fairchild, Perkin Elmer, Pacific Optical and Viewlex. Not all of them had the same design. No mention of Wollensak in my list, but it is incomplete and stops in 1967. Interestingly, it shows a 6"/2.0 Wolly that covers 4.5" x 4.5".

USAF's 12"/5.6 lenses that covered 4.5" x 4.5" came from at least Perkin Elmer and Photronics. No Wollies, but that means nothing. Wolly sold a 15"/5.6 Tele-Raptar in the civilian market for many years. It makes me wonder whether the OP, who is ignoring me, misread his middle lens' focal length.

USAF for sure bought 24"/5.6 lenses that covered 4.5" x 4.5" from B&L, Pacific Optical and Zenith Optical. No Wollies, but that proves nothing.

I can see two serial numbers, on the 6"/2.8 and on the middle lens. They have a "C" prefix, which means very little but does indicate that the lenses are late ones. Wollensak closed in '72, they're probably from the late '60s.

One of them has a brownish coating, the other two have a less obvious coating. Starting with the 6" (152mm) is F 2.5, 12" (304mm)is f 5.6 and 24" (610mm) is f 5.6. They have a screw mounts and each one is a different diameter. They say they are Raptars so I suppose they fit that group of lenses in construction. Albeit on steroids! The big 24" one weighs 7 lbs! It is missing it's aperture btw, someone took it out? one of the others is frozen wide open so it will need cleaning. They are very dusty and there is some fungus, For the moment i want to see how they perform so keeping.

GregW said:

They say they are Raptars so I suppose they fit that group of lenses in construction.

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Raptar is a trade name, not a design type. It has no implication for the lenses' construction. And in fact the two larger ones are badged Tele-Raptar. They might be classical four elements in two groups telephoto lenses but this isn't guaranteed. The 6"/2.8 ain't a tele, can't be the same design type as the other two.

Whether the lenses are worth keeping depends on their performance, their condition and on how easy they are to put to use.

Performance is probably not bad, by the time they were made most new aerial camera lenses were reasonably good.

The pictures don't show much about condition, but the 6"/2.8's front surface seems a bit cruddy. Might clean up nicely, might not.

If Greg has a camera with a focal plane shutter and enough extension to focus the lenses to infinity -- the 6" and 12" will both work on a 4x5 Speed Graphic, the 24" probably won't -- or a camera that can use a behind-the-lens shutter such as a Sinar or Packard then all he has to do is put them on the right boards. On most cameras the 24" will need a crutch to support it, its center of gravity will be a good distance in front of the front standard. The 12" might go into a shutter, I'd look for an Alphax or a large, possibly nonexistent, Rapax. Unlikely that it will fit an Ilex or Compur. The 6" probably won't go into a standard shutter, the thing to do is measure and look up shutters' sizes. The 24" can't be shuttered. They were all made for cameras with focal plane shutters.

If Greg really is ignoring me -- its his right -- someone please pass this news to him.

There were a bunch of 5" aerial cameras an 5" aerial roll film was a very common size right up till digital. Most aerial films came in 9.5", 5", and 70mm. Lenses must have been for some 5" camera