Help identifying leak

thesooth · Apr 12, 2023

Hey folks,

I have the next issue: I developed a few rolls at home using Paterson tank, bulk-loaded film with LLoy Daylight bulk loader, and reused cartridges from the film that I already shot.
On the last frames, I always have strange leaks with the same pattern, it doesn't matter how many frames I'm loading 18-24-38, always the last 3-4 frames have the same leak.
One time - I developed film and It doesn't have these leaks, and loaded normally, without changing bag.

I've tried to change cassettes - but I still have it, tried to shoot a different film that was not loaded manually - and there are no leaks.
I've tried to load film in changing bag, and in 1 of 2 rolls - there are leaks, but probably it's because previously I loaded it not in the changing bag.

It could be loader, but idk why it appears only on the last 3-4 frames and not on the whole roll?

These last frames are from 3 different rolls.

mshchem · Apr 12, 2023

Inspect the bulk loader. Those Lloyd's units that are really old could chip. If there is a small light leak in the loader it could look like this.

thesooth · Apr 12, 2023

I just bought it new a few weeks ago, it's the first film loaded in to it

Daniela · Apr 12, 2023

I also use a LLoyd's loader and kept getting random leaks. I just started using it inside a changing bag and problem solved. Not the way it's supposed to be used, but oh well!
SInce it's new, maybe you could return it and get a different one...

Oh, the leaks being on the last frames of the roll (closest to the center of the canister?) could be due to moving the film around a bit to tape it to the spool before you begin rolling.

Hilo · Apr 12, 2023

Can't you load in the complete dark?

koraks · Apr 12, 2023

thesooth said:
These last frames are from 3 different rolls.

Can you post a clear photograph of the end of a film strip that shows the defects? So including the space between the frames, and the frames in their original order.

foc · Apr 12, 2023

Yes, can you post something like this, please?

thesooth · Apr 12, 2023

sorry, I don't have light stand to do it, so I just used my laptop screen for this:

as you can see there is just a black line and it appears at the same position every time

koraks · Apr 13, 2023

thesooth said:
I just used my laptop screen for this:

That's great, thanks
Any chance of showing the full area that's affected?

The shape of the fogged area suggests the problem occurs as the film is partially rolled up, but in imperfect alignment. The color suggests the exposure may be occurring through the remjet base of the film (so it's pretty strong fogging). Given this combination, my suspicion would be a light leak in the chamber of the bulk loader where the bulk roll sits, possibly near or at the gate where the film sticks out.

Try this:
In a changing bag or perfectly dark room, cut off the end of the film on the bulk roll; i.e. the last foot or so. If my suspicion is correct, this strip should already be fogged. Store the bulk loader in the dark bag or in a perfectly dark space/container. Load some test rolls of film and evaluate them.

The sharp edges to the fogging makes it exceedingly unlikely that the fogging is of a chemical nature and related to processing.

thesooth · Apr 13, 2023

Thank you for suggestion, I did load 2 rolls in the changing bag and one of them had a little leak and second one - without, but first one could contain it because previous roll I loaded in the daylight.

I'll return this loader

Neal · Apr 13, 2023

I have always feared light leaks when bulk loading. Because of that, I always load the entire spool onto cartridges at once while inside a changing bag. It's not hard to do as I can complete it while watching a half hour television show. The rolled cartridges then go inside black containers and I never have light leak problems.

Good luck!

xkaes · Apr 13, 2023

I doubt it's a loader problem. If it were, the problem would appear through the entire roll -- not just at the end.

Anon Ymous · Apr 13, 2023

xkaes said:
I doubt it's a loader problem. If it were, there problem would appear through the entire roll -- not just at the end.

Nope, the film + cassette isn't exposed to light when loading film, only when the film is attached to the spool. This explains the relatively short length where it's exposed.

thesooth · Apr 13, 2023

btw, I'm reusing 35mm cassettes, so I using a strip of scotch tape to attach film from the loader to tail of cassette.

koraks · Apr 13, 2023

xkaes said:
If it were, there problem would appear through the entire roll -- not just at the end.

Not necessarily. Bulk rolls are generally rolled pretty tight, with only the end sticking out being more loose. Combined with the blocking power of the remjet layer on Vision3 film, a fogging problem like this will be quite likely.

xkaes · Apr 13, 2023

I guess we need to define "end". I'm using it at the part that goes into the cassette first -- the part taped to the spool -- not the other end, which is the tongue.

The taped end will, of course be completely black until the door/flap is closed. The OP is not talking about that part of the film, but I assume it is in reference to a problem at the taped end, not the tongue end.

A better photo or description would help.

koraks · Apr 13, 2023

xkaes said:
I guess we need to define "end".

Hence my repeated question to show the entire affected part of the film, as this would make it clear which end it occurs on. But I agree with you that it's probably the end that's taped to the spindle of the cassette. Indeed, that end is totally exposed at its extremity; i.e. the part that sticks out of the light trap. I think the problem affects the length of film immediately following that bit.

xkaes · Apr 13, 2023

My thought as well.

And if it were a leak in the loaded, it would show up through the entire roll.

But, if it were a leak in the cassettes outside the loader -- around the spindle -- the result would be different.

The clue for me is that the edge of the leak is VERY sharp -- meaning something clean and on the film. A leak from the loader would not be so sharp/perfect -- much more diffuse.

koraks · Apr 13, 2023

xkaes said:
A leak from the loader would not be so sharp/perfect -- much more diffuse.

I think it can work though. Note the two overlapping bands of fog, one being more diffuse and weaker than the other. I see what you mean though. It's a tricky one to nail precisely from a distance!

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