Help identify my plate camera!

degentd · Apr 19, 2012

Hello to everyone.

I'm new on this forum. My name is Zoli and i'm from Transsylvania.
I got a plate folder camera this days and i can't find anything on google about this camera.
It has a Vario (25,50,100,B,T) shutter and a Jos. Schnieder & Co. Kreuznach No. xxxxxx Radionar Anastigmat 6.3/13.5cm lens.
Can anybody tell me more about this camera, please?

I'm attaching some photos for reference. Looking back for any kind of answer.

regards, zoli

Old-N-Feeble · Apr 19, 2012

Greetings and welcome, Zoli. Could you post a close-up photo of the back of the camera?

degentd · Apr 19, 2012

Thank You Old-N-Feeble for your quick feedback.
Here are some (not so good) pics.

Old-N-Feeble · Apr 19, 2012

Did the focusing panel come with this camera? Many times the make and model were pressed into the leather of the lid.

Maybe one more close-up of the front cover... the bottom of the camera when it's open.

Ian Grant · Apr 19, 2012

It's easier to tell you what it osn't than what it is

Identification can be very difficult as there were so many German/European manufacturers of these cameras and some were very short lived.

FEC used the Radionar in a Vario as did Voighlander on a basic model, but you'd need to compare the camera. looking at the hinges.whay the standard moves & locks on the focus track, type of wire finder and sight etc.

Ian

fotch · Apr 19, 2012

Hello Zoli and welcome to APUG. Interesting camera, however, I have no info, just interested bystander.

summicron1 · Apr 20, 2012

look on the handle. There is often a name there, pressed into the leather -- might be the brand or at least the model. Either way, if you can see that, you can look it up in McKeown's, or post it here and someone can -- or email me.

degentd · Apr 20, 2012

Thank you for all of you/for your answers! There isn't anything pressed on the leather (lid) (Old-N-Feeble, summicron1), and yes the focusing panel was with this camera (Old-N-Feeble).

I found something interesting/similar (to my camera) on Camerapedia: First_plate_folders,"The First or First Camera Japanese 6.5×9cm plate folders, distributed by Minagawa in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and ostensibly made by "First Camera Works", another name for Kuribayashi". What do you think?!

regards, zoli (sorry for my horrible hungarian english)

Sirius Glass · Apr 20, 2012

Zoli, welcome to APUG!

bugbugbug · Apr 20, 2012

If there are no markings on the outside of the camera, (did you check _under_ the handle on the top of the camera? Sometimes the model markings are pressed into the leatherette there), try colapsing the lens board back into the camera and rolling the rack out without the lens. Sometimes markings are hidden under there. If there are no markings, your guess is a good as mine! ^_^

removed account4 · Apr 20, 2012

hi zoli

google images sometimes can help
type in "folding plate camera" + "schneider"

http://www.google.com/search?q="fol...Q&biw=1098&bih=806&sei=vw6ST5viAaSg2AWgnYydBQ

it'll be kind of like a needle in a haystack

good luck !
john

degentd · Apr 20, 2012

Sirius Glass said:
Zoli, welcome to APUG!

Thank You!

degentd · Apr 21, 2012

bugbugbug said:
If there are no markings on the outside of the camera, (did you check _under_ the handle on the top of the camera? Sometimes the model markings are pressed into the leatherette there), try colapsing the lens board back into the camera and rolling the rack out without the lens. Sometimes markings are hidden under there. If there are no markings, your guess is a good as mine! ^_^

I checked all kind of places but i didn't found anything. I'll stay with what i found on Camerapedia (japanese First plate Folder made in ~1930?).

regards

degentd · Apr 21, 2012

jnanian said:
hi zoli

google images sometimes can help
type in "folding plate camera" + "schneider"

http://www.google.com/search?q="fol...Q&biw=1098&bih=806&sei=vw6ST5viAaSg2AWgnYydBQ

it'll be kind of like a needle in a haystack

good luck !
john

Thank you John, i'll try this.

regards, zoli

Ian Grant · Apr 21, 2012

Hi Zoli, it's quite different to the Japanese First Plate folder (look at the handle, front rise etc) and these wouldn't have been exported to Europe anyway. Before WWII very few Japanese cameras were sold outside Japan itself and then mainly to other far eastern countries, only Hansa (Canon) were begining to sell world wide at that point.

What doesn't help is at that time some cameras were made without a makers name and were often badged with a store or distributors own name plate. In the UK Wallace and Heaton used the name Zodel on equipment they sold and there were many other similar rebrandings in the UK/US and I'd guess Europe as well. This make identification difficult.

What may help you is Schneider were still a smalller lens manufacturer at that time so their lenses were less common and used by fewer manufacturers. They seem to have benefitted from Nagel's leaving Zeiss Ikon and setting up on his own again (He had previously founded Contessa Nettel). Look up the Radionar's serial number as that'll tell you an approx date when the camera was made.

Ian

degentd · Apr 21, 2012

Ian Grant said:
Hi Zoli, it's quite different to the Japanese First Plate folder (look at the handle, front rise etc) and these wouldn't have been exported to Europe anyway. Before WWII very few Japanese cameras were sold outside Japan itself and then mainly to other far eastern countries, only Hansa (Canon) were begining to sell world wide at that point.

What doesn't help is at that time some cameras were made without a makers name and were often badged with a store or distributors own name plate. In the UK Wallace and Heaton used the name Zodel on equipment they sold and there were many other similar rebrandings in the UK/US and I'd guess Europe as well. This make identification difficult.

What may help you is Schneider were still a smalller lens manufacturer at that time so their lenses were less common and used by fewer manufacturers. They seem to have benefitted from Nagel's leaving Zeiss Ikon and setting up on his own again (He had previously founded Contessa Nettel). Look up the Radionar's serial number as that'll tell you an approx date when the camera was made.

Ian

Hi Ian
Good point about serial number. Thanx a lot.
Unfortunately i don't know very much about prewar cameras. Thanx for your advice about japan plate folders, also

regards, z.

Ian Grant · Apr 21, 2012

degentd said:
Hi Ian
Good point about serial number. Thanx a lot.
Unfortunately i don't know very much about prewar cameras. Thanx for your advice about japan plate folders, also

regards, z.

You'll learn fast Zoli when you want to identify cameras It's a 9x12 camera and some times they were sold as Quarter plate in the UK/US, only the back and plate holders differed same width but quarter plate is slightly shorter.

I collect British Journal Photographic Almanacs and have a number now from the 1920's & 30's and it's noticable from the adverts that Schneider lenses were not common (here in the UK) except on Nagel and Kodak (Nagel) cameras until the mid 30's when Schneider began advertising themselves.

You might try watching German Ebay.de for 9x12 cameras being sold, I built up quite a list of makes, lenses and shutters, but ony 2 with Radionars. It took me a year to identify one of my British wood & brass camears and it was another 18 months before I finally saw an image of one the same size/format - so good luck

Ian

bugbugbug · Apr 22, 2012

Also, using the lens / shutter to ID the camera isn't a good idea since those could have been swapped out for something different over the lifetime of the camera.

Ian Grant · Apr 22, 2012

I think you start with the premise that in this case the shutter and lens are original, if you were going to the trouble of replacing them then it's unlikely you'd go for a budget shutter and triplet lens again. Add to that the camera itself has no front rise/fall so we have a budget camera with the appropriate lens/shutter combination.

In a seperate thread Umut has listed the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) which includes those of of the 1920's/30's era, then you realise that identification can be an uphill task as almost every manufacturer made 9x12 cameras that are superficially quite similar. In the UK in the late 1900's you could assemble cameras from parts, they came in kit form from a couple of suppliers, German companies seem to have been buying in some components for these 9x12 cameras in much the same way.

Ian

Help identify my plate camera!

degentd

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Help identify my plate camera!

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