HELP: Hypo Clear ratios

[vcmaes]

I've decided to develop B&W film at home and bought chemicals to do so... but need help in figuring out what ratio to mix my hypo clearing agent on a tank by tank basis. I plan to start out with just 35mm, and 120 at a later time. I'll be using a Patterson Universal Tank and about 300mL of water for the 35mm film.

It's Lauder's Hypo Clearing Agent (concentrated liquid) Formula 150, and in speaking with different people I've heard to mix anywhere from a cap full of hypo concentrate for 300mL of water, to a 1:7 of hypo concentrate to water mix.

What are you all doing at home?

 

[MattKing]

Welcome to APUG!

Digitaltruthphoto.com sells this chemistry. You could contact them. Their website information doesn't answer your question, but it does link to the MSDS for this product, which includes a telephone number for Lauder Photographic Inc.:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/msds/Lauder_Hypo_Clear_150_MSDS.pdf

If you get an answer, be sure to post it here.

 

[R gould]

Why use HCA with film, you don't need it and if you use the Ilford method for washing then you won't need a lot of water, just 3 tankfuls, and it works well, I have negatives that are many years old washed using the Ilford method, and no HCA, and they are as good as the day they were developed,
Richard

 

[wogster]

I've decided to develop B&W film at home and bought chemicals to do so... but need help in figuring out what ratio to mix my hypo clearing agent on a tank by tank basis. I plan to start out with just 35mm, and 120 at a later time. I'll be using a Patterson Universal Tank and about 300mL of water for the 35mm film.

It's Lauder's Hypo Clearing Agent (concentrated liquid) Formula 150, and in speaking with different people I've heard to mix anywhere from a cap full of hypo concentrate for 300mL of water, to a 1:7 of hypo concentrate to water mix.

What are you all doing at home?

One question, what fixer are you using, many fixers these days are rapid fixers, they use Ammonium Thiosulphate as the active ingredient rather then Sodium Thiosulphate (Hypo), so HCA isn't going to have much effect. I think if I were using a Hypo based fixer with FB paper I would want an HCA, with RC papers and film, you don't really need it.

 

[vcmaes]

The results

Thanks for the helpful input guy's, after reading your posts and doing a little more searching about the "interweb", I jumped in and developed my first roll of B&W at home. The test roll came out pretty good.

I shot a roll of Kodak 125PX
+ developed with D-76 @ full strength
+ fixed with Ilford Rapid Fixer @ 1:4 dilution
+ Hypo'd with Lauder Hypo Clearing Agent Formula 150 @1:7 dilution
**chemical:water ratio

@wogster & R gould - you are correct, Ilford Rapid Fixer does not contain any hypo so it does not need to be hypo cleared. That being said, I figured to go with the hypo step this time, cause that's how I did it in class, BUT will develop the next roll without the hypo step.

@MattKing - I checked the info at DigitalTruth, but the documentation (PDF) listed was the MSDS and didn't address any sort of dilution info. Oddly enough I contacted two online re-sellers of the HCA by Lauder Chem asking for contact info for Lauder, and they stated they didn't have a contact number for Lauder, weird.

-Vince
[*O'']

 

[Jeff Kubach]

The only time I use hypo-clear is on FB paper.

Jeff

 

[Ian C]

Likewise

 

[MattKing]

Vince:

For clarity, and to address a really common source of confusion...

All wash-aids like the Lauder chemistry you have and the Kodak "Hypo Clearing Agent" are designed to be used with film and paper fixed using any type of fixer. It doesn't matter if the fixer type is the older, slower chemistry that historically used to be called "hypo" or the newer rapid fixers.

If you refer to "hypo", you are using a term that used to mean fixer, and has never meant a wash aid - to "hypo" something would mean to put it in fixer.

Hypo clearing agents and other wash aids are recommended by both Ilford and Kodak for use with films - the recommendation is in the alternative, because you can wash without them if your wash water is suitable and are willing to use longer washing procedures. I personally have always used Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent and the shorter wash times.

I referred you to the MSDS sheet because it had a telephone number on it for Lauder.

 

[wogster]

Vince:

For clarity, and to address a really common source of confusion...

All wash-aids like the Lauder chemistry you have and the Kodak "Hypo Clearing Agent" are designed to be used with film and paper fixed using any type of fixer. It doesn't matter if the fixer type is the older, slower chemistry that historically used to be called "hypo" or the newer rapid fixers.

If you refer to "hypo", you are using a term that used to mean fixer, and has never meant a wash aid - to "hypo" something would mean to put it in fixer.

Hypo clearing agents and other wash aids are recommended by both Ilford and Kodak for use with films - the recommendation is in the alternative, because you can wash without them if your wash water is suitable and are willing to use longer washing procedures. I personally have always used Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent and the shorter wash times.

I referred you to the MSDS sheet because it had a telephone number on it for Lauder.

Considering the wash times, the Ilford wash method, fill tank with water, invert 5 times, dump, fill, invert 10 times, dump, fill, invert 20 times, is with a rapid fixer and WITHOUT a hypo clearing agent, but is rated for archival use. Ilford no longer makes a sodium based fixer. Now Kodak still makes a Sodium based fixer, so they still recommend an HCA. For the OP, most chemicals come with instructions on the bottle, so the best thing to do is mix it following those instructions.

 

[Vaughn]

Judging only from the pink in the used HCA, it looks like the HCA does help to remove the pink sensitizing dyes of the TMax films (even using Rapid Fix).

 

[hpulley]

Pink T-Max is the only time I use washaid with film. Always with FB paper.

 

[Monito]

Judging only from the pink in the used HCA, it looks like the HCA does help to remove the pink sensitizing dyes of the TMax films (even using Rapid Fix).

That means it wasn't washed enough in the first place.

I use six complete changes of water. It conserves water compared to a running water wash, and all pink is gone after the third tank full.

I just drain the water, fill, dump, fill again, swirl the reels to dislodge air bubbles and let sit for five minutes. Repeat for six periods of five minutes.

It is actually more sure-fire than running water for 30 minutes because there can be eddy points and places in the tank that don't get a full change of water. With running water, to ensure six complete changes (the standard even for regular non-rapid fixer) you have to run a sufficient flow that you use an enormous quantity of water. Very wasteful.

I did it this way for years, omitting even the dump-fill-again part, and I have pristine negatives from those runs. I can do several changes while putting away bottles and cleaning up the darkroom after a run.

I also did that with prints and likewise I have FB prints from 35 years ago that are pristine. These days I will get some hypo clear washing aid and use it for the fiber based prints I will get back into doing. Enlarger is almost ready to go. I'll still do six manual changes of water.

 

[Vaughn]

That means it wasn't washed enough in the first place...

Since HCA is before the wash, your comment does not exactly "wash"...

 

[Monito]

Since HCA is before the wash, your comment does not exactly "wash"...

Cute.

The HCA solution will remove the pink dye just as any water solution will of similar concentration. It's not a function particularly of the HCA. I say similar concentration simply because of ionic mobility considerations. The thiosulfate is a very different ion from the pink dye molecule. The sulfite ion simply replaces the thiosulfate ion. The sensitizing dyes are cyclic aromatic organic molecules, much larger and heavier.

Subsequent washing will clear the dye. The HCA solution is just like a wash (change of water) as far as the dye is concerned.