Help for m800

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

Hello,
I'll try to explain my problem with m800. I'm Italian than my english is non very good.
I would like to change enlarger set up from "condensatore" to sharper light. Don't understand if I have to buy only setobox 66 without change anything about bulb or I have to provide to make a box for a new kind of light.
Sorry, I don't want stress you but are days that I study this solution. I'm non sure about understanding

gorbas · Jan 3, 2022

Hi Angela,
Im M800 owner with condenser, colour head light sources and Ilford multigrade head.
What light source you have now on your M800? If you post picture it's even better.
If you can not post picture here because you are new member, feel free to send me private message
Don't worry about your english, I'm ESL (english second language) speaker too.

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

Thank you! Non I haven't hear my enlarger but I can say that it has an opaline bulb light. I print with condensatore as well but I prefer sharpness.
I still saw around many forum that is possible to change condensatore with satobox (maybe 66) than make a container for another bulb type like in picture in attach.

I don't need color head, it's very difficult to find

gorbas · Jan 3, 2022

OK, what size of negatives are you usually printing, 24x36, 6x6, 6x9 or something between?
Maybe you are thinking of "point source" light source, maximum sharpness and contrast? I never seen prefabricated point source for M800 but most likely it exist somewhere or it can be manufactured? No need to remanufacture anything for ordinary condensers on M800. Or you are looking for something "special"??

AgX · Jan 3, 2022

In the original setup the enlarger already has a condensor.

What you indicate in your sketch is to take out the mirror box. But I do not see a substantial change in illumination by doing so. Other than that in your sketch, to my understanding, the condenser will even be too near the lamp, even worsening illumination.

A point light illumination not only needs a different, very small, nonopalized lamp, a new power supply, but also the means to fine adjust the lamp or the condensor, necessary at any change of enlarging scale.

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

I try to explain better. I want to replace condensatore with setobox diffuser. Now I print in 35mm with condensatore and I don't like it

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

https://www.ebay.it/itm/163784700520

gorbas · Jan 3, 2022

Sorry Angela, my colour head is stored at very bottom of the darkroom, it's very inconvenient to pull it out and check. Is Setobox mixing box for colour head?
In my instruction manuals for CLS80 colour head mixing boxes are SESIBOX 69,66 and 35.Then, with that combination you will have less contrast and "sharpness" than with condensers.
Did you try to print on harder paper gradation or to develop your films longer to gain contrast?

AgX · Jan 3, 2022

angela lucari said:
I try to explain better. I want to replace condensatore with setobox diffuser. Now I print in 35mm with condensatore and I don't like it

For highest microcontrast when using film with the actual negative image made up from silver particles you need a point light condenser illumination.

So there is some misunderstanding on your side.
What do you not like ar your current results?

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

gorbas said:
Sorry Angela, my colour head is stored at very bottom of the darkroom, it's very inconvenient to pull it out and check. Is Setobox mixing box for colour head?
In my instruction manuals for CLS80 colour⁰ head mixing boxes are SESIBOX 69,66 and 35.Then, with that combination you will have less contrast and "sharpness" than with condensers.
Did you try to print on harder paper gradation or to develop your films longer to gain contrast?

Yes, setobox or sesibox (it depends to model and manufacture year) is mixing box.

gorbas · Jan 3, 2022

Angela, Can you please post here some of your pictures that you like or do not like, so we are on the same page?
If you look for more "sharpness" and contrast then your plan with replacing condenser with Setobox or Sesibox will not work. Sorry.
But on bright side, maybe there is another way to achieve look you are after

MARTIE · Jan 3, 2022

The condenser set up on your enlarger is the 'sharpest' light.

In order to make your enlarger into a diffuser set up, you will need the colour head and diffuser boxes which mix and soften the light.

It was never the intention for the 2 enlarger light source set ups; condenser vs diffuser, to be combined.
It is either the condenser enlarger set up with the opal lamp and condensers OR the diffuser enlarger set up with a halogen lamp and diffuser mixing boxes.

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

gorbas said:
Angela, Can you please post here some of your pictures that you like or do not like, so we are on the same page?
If you look for more "sharpness" and contrast then your plan with replacing condenser with Setobox or Sesibox will not work. Sorry.
But on bright side, maybe there is another way to achieve look you are after

Sorry, I'll post that tomorrow. Now I Don't have any print here with me.
Thank you

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

MARTIE said:
The condenser set up on your enlarger is the 'sharpest' light.

In order to make your enlarger into a diffuser set up, you will need the colour head and diffuser boxes which mix and soften the light.

It was never the intention for the 2 enlarger light source set ups; condenser vs diffuser, to be combined.
It is either the condenser enlarger set up with the opal lamp and condensers OR the diffuser enlarger set up with a halogen lamp and diffuser mixing boxes.

Yes I know. On M800 enlarger is possible set up either kind of light source, I understood that on m800's user manual My question is more simple (maybe I think so ) . The colour head I think is required for colour printing or for graduate filter black and white . The white light could be mix like an other colour, I think so
Sorry,It is very difficult for me (Italian speaking and darkroom beginner ) to explaine better!

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

gorbas said:
Angela, Can you please post here some of your pictures that you like or do not like, so we are on the same page?
If you look for more "sharpness" and contrast then your plan with replacing condenser with Setobox or Sesibox will not work. Sorry.
But on bright side, maybe there is another way to achieve look you are after

I'll send tomorrow some of my picture, now I haven't year that!
Thank you!

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

Thank you to all! Maybe I'll never understand about this question but surely I'll learn to write better English

AgX · Jan 3, 2022

In elarging illumination there is that contrast enhancing CALLIER effect, that takes place at silver particle images on the film, when the illumination is from a focused point light source, in contrast to the illumination from mixing chambers of colour heads.

The classic black and white heads with their opalized, large bulb and condenser are somewhat inbetween those two extremes.

angela lucari · Jan 3, 2022

AgX said:
In elarging illumination there is that contrast enhancing CALLIER effect, that takes place at silver particle images on the film, when the illumination is from a focused point light source, in contrast to the illumination from mixing chambers of colour heads.

The classic black and white heads with their opalized, large bulb and condenser are somewhat inbetween those two extremes.

Thank you! So, it will be enough to less contrast film develop. Is it?

koraks · Jan 9, 2022

What are you trying to achieve? That is, what kind of improvement do you want to realize?
You might try writing in Italian and then using Google Translate to convert your message to English. This often works surprisingly well.

Doremus Scudder · Jan 10, 2022

Ciao Angela,

My Italian is rusty, so I'll write in English:

If you want "sharpness," then your condensers should be as good as anything else. Sharpness comes from a sharp negative, a good enlarging lens and a well-set-up enlarger.

The option you are considering is changing your condenser light source to a diffusion light source. Both are equally sharp. Diffusion light sources are a bit less contrasty. You would have to use a higher contrast setting when printing to get the same print as with the condenser light source. Either will give you all the sharpness possible.

If your prints are not sharp, then there is something else wrong. It is not your light source. Check your lens, enlarger alignment, camera focus, etc. first.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for more contrast in your prints, then this is a different problem. Often, you just need to print at a higher contrast setting. If that is not enough, then you need to develop your film more.

Hope that helps,

Doremus

angela lucari · Jan 10, 2022

thank you all! you have been fantastic. i solved it as indicated by this user. I report his answer below.
I want to clarify that all your advice has made me understand even better many things about the darkroom print and film develop
Thank you very much!

"I understand that right now you have a condenser in your Durst M800 (kind
of like a magnifying glass). This system gives more contrast and more light
to your prints, but on the other hand, any speck of dust on the negative is
exposed more sharply in your prints.

I use several light diffusers in my M800. There are several models
depending on the size of the negative. For medium format you have the
Setobox, in size 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9. Their names are followed by the size of
the negative, that is: Setobox 66, Setobox 67, Setobox 69 ... The light
transmitted by the diffuser is more homogeneous and softer (probably
opening a diaphragm step in your lens to reach the same exposure , or a
little more exposure time). The advantage is that specks of dust are less
noticeable in your prints, and that you can work with negatives with higher
contrast.

To change the condenser for a diffuser it is not necessary to change the
bulb. On your M800, on top of the film holder, there is a small door that
opens upwards. If you open it, you will see a box with a small handle. If
you pull out it will come out. That magnifying glass is the condenser. The
diffuser is exactly the same and is installed in the same way, but instead
of glass, it has white translucent plastic pieces of the same size as the
negative."

angela lucari · Jan 10, 2022

I'm at the first prints and the first developments, I find it hard to learn by myself. I need to practice and study. unfortunately I understand English well but I don't know how to speak it. surely by attending this forum I will be able to improve my practice in the darkroom and my English!
thank you again

angela lucari · Jan 10, 2022

angela lucari · Jan 10, 2022

angela lucari said:
View attachment 295309

This is my first develop and my first print

gorbas · Jan 10, 2022

Not bad for the first print Angela!
It looks like your negative is underexposed at least 1 to 1 ½ f stop and there is some univenes of development and fingerprints on the printing paper or dirt on the negative.
Did you use camera TTL light meter to figure out exposure?

Help for m800

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