HELP - Efke 25 w/D76

I finally got around to shooting some Efke 25 this past weekend. I only have access to D76 at a commercial darkroom here. I can either go with the D76 straight or dilute. I have times of 6minutes with D76 straight and 9 minutes with 1:1 dilution.

Any experience you can share with this combination is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, other developers are not an option right now. Thanks!

hkr said:

I finally got around to shooting some Efke 25 this past weekend. I only have access to D76 at a commercial darkroom here. I can either go with the D76 straight or dilute. I have times of 6minutes with D76 straight and 9 minutes with 1:1 dilution.

Any experience you can share with this combinations is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, other developers are not an option right now. Thanks!

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I do not have specific experience with the film you mention, but I know D76 pretty well. This can be said of nearly any developer, however...

Generally, a longer dev time is preferable to a shorter one, up to a point. This is because the longer the correct dev time, the less impact small mistakes will have.

To use a gross example:

In a five-minute dev time, a one-minute error is one-fifth off, pretty significatn. In a ten-minute dev time, a one-minute error is one-tenth off, not as significant. Same can be said for errors of temperature - the longer the dev time is, the more the error is 'diluted' into the larger number.

With D76 specifically, a 1+1 dilution tends to increase accutance and grain slightly over stock solution. I use D76 always at 1+1, very rarely at 1+3.

If I am mistaken, I am sure others will correct me, but this is my basic understanding of why longer dev times are preferable to shorter in most cases.

Why not follow the advice you got when you asked this question back in October?

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The 1+3 dilution is a good suggestion; a fine-grain film doesn't need the solvent action that you get from D76 undiluted or 1+1.

Considering that Efke 25 is a fine grain film and that FS D-76 will adversely effect the resolution go with the 1+3 dilution. The Massive Development Chart suggests 9 - 10 minutes at 20 C. BTW, MDC suggests 9 minutes for 1+1 only for an EI of 50 not for the normal box speed of 25..

moose10101 said:

Why not follow the advice you got when you asked this question back in October?

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The 1+3 dilution is a good suggestion; a fine-grain film doesn't need the solvent action that you get from D76 undiluted or 1+1.

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Thanks, moose. I am embarrassed by my laziness in not referring to my prior post. I will go with the 1+3 dilution at 10 minutes with the first roll and see what happens.

Regards.

No! use rodinal, mix up at home in a water bottle(evian ect..) and bring it in, then pour it down the drain.
Edit: bring it in dev the film and THEN pour it down the drain

You do not state what format KB25 you are shooting, or how you are rating it. Are you shooting box speed, or lower such as 16? This film gets really contrasty in a straight D76 tank, with a lot of local contrast loss. Recommended is at least 1:2, or as stated 1:3. The Ilford ID11 (a direct match for D76) seems to give better acutance, and less "muddying" of the overall density effect. Semi-stand development is really good with either of these developers.

Although Marko has no idea of what he is talking about, Rodinal or Photo Formulary para-aminophenol clone is excellent with this film especially for stand development. This seems to get the best local contrast, acutance, and sharpness combination from the film. I routinely do mine as follows, as I have settled on the PF clone as my developer of choice for KB25:

2 minute water presoak with mild agitation to remove the antihalation dye.

PF Rodinal Clone 68F, 5 initial inversions, stand for 30 minutes.

Water stop bath, 1 minute. This film does not really like acid based stop.

Conventional Fix (8-10 minutes)

Hypo Clear, 2 minutes

Wash, 15-30 minutes.

Try it, you will like it. PS: This works even better if you rate the film at 16!!!

Patrick - have you ever tried D-76 with Efke 25 (or with any other film) at dilutions greater than 1:3 ?

I second the approach of a dilute developer with extended development times. The biggest problem with this film is the rapid development with "normal" developer and the very small window which exists for correct times. My "normal" dilution for Efke 25 with pyrocat is 1:1:150, or a very thin soup to allow for longer times. The problem with this film is that it can build contrast rapidly, but you will tend to get too much contrast if it goes even 10% longer than necessary.

As Patrick has mentioned, slow it down and give it time to build. I've settled on minimal agitation and 16 minutes with the above dilution, but lighting contrast is a critical part of this mix. Where Efke 100 can contract very well, Efke 25 can expand in a similar manner. You can't really get good results at much greater than an SBR of 10 with this film. With low lighting contrast, a tripod, slow shutter and a bit of understanding, this is a great film to work with. With harsh light and a fast developer, it is pure hell. tim

A learning curve

Tim, you hit on the first major lesson I learned with KB25. My first thinking was that given the speed and thicker emulsion it might mimic some of the major characteristics of Pan-X. God, I miss that film after 20 years of it being my most used BW film. Anyway...

My first fatal error was assuming that KB25 (in the 4x5 format) would be a wonderful film for bright and sunny 16 days, just like Pan-X. I souped with Microdol 1:2 developing for box speed at 74F. The result sort of reminded me of a smooth Kodalith neg :confused: After playing with nearly a box, the discovery was made just as you stated; soft or flat light, long exposures, and increase development while reducing agitation to let the film build. It was then that I came across a thread here that suggested the stand method with it. I think that Sandy contributed to that conversation, as well as Steve S. Although PMK was the dev of choice, it was an epiphany when substituting rodinal clone.

Tom, no I have not experimented with D76 beyond the usual 1:2 dilution. The thought has crossed my mind, but given the softer effect of the aforementioned dilution and the tendency of D76 to become a little muddy in the overall contrast definitions at greater dilution I have not pursued the matter. Have you any experience with this? The result should transfer directly over to ID11 which seems to make for a cleaner neg. I think that this has something to do with how the ID11 is packaged versus the Kodak.

With solvent developers I have used Microdol in a 1:3 and 1:4 soup, primarily with Agfa 25 and Tech Pan. Guess that I won't be doing that anymore either

Efke 25 is a great film but highlights are prone to blow if you are not careful.
Due to that I'd reccomend you use 1+3 dilution rather than 1+1
1+3 should be in the 10 minute ballpark at EI25

hkr said:

I finally got around to shooting some Efke 25 this past weekend. I only have access to D76 at a commercial darkroom here. I can either go with the D76 straight or dilute. I have times of 6minutes with D76 straight and 9 minutes with 1:1 dilution.

Any experience you can share with this combination is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, other developers are not an option right now. Thanks!

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Does anyone have experience developing with higher dilutions of D-76 (higher than 1+3)?