Help! Dark bands across my picture edges

Adam W · Feb 10, 2015

Hey folks,

I'm new to developing film at home. I just developed my first roll of 120 Tri-X 400, run through a Yashica Mat 124G. I used Ilfasol 3 at 1:9, all done as per the Massive Dev Chart. Here's my problem: every frame has a dark strip running down the right side. Is this a light leak? Or is it a developing error? Here's an example:

Thanks,

Adam

removedacct1 · Feb 10, 2015

I was going to say, I bet you didn't quite fill the tank with developer. The Patterson tank takes close to 800 ml to fill it.

Adam W · Feb 10, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Was there enough liquid in the tank?

I assume so. I used 500ml of liquid, which is what the Paterson tank says to use.

Adam W · Feb 10, 2015

paulbarden said:
I was going to say, I bet you didn't quite fill the tank with developer. The Patterson tank takes close to 800 ml to fill it.

Well, maybe for the next roll I'll use 600ml.

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I fill my tank to overflowing. This is not a light leak in the camera. I can think of no other problem other than insufficient quantity, regardless of what Paterson says.

Thanks for the quick replies, guys! Not enough liquid is a lot easier for me to remedy than a light leak. I've just loaded another roll of Tri-X, so I'll try it with more fluid and see if the problem goes away.

Thanks again,

Adam

removedacct1 · Feb 11, 2015

Adam W said:
Thanks for the quick replies, guys! Not enough liquid is a lot easier for me to remedy than a light leak. I've just loaded another roll of Tri-X, so I'll try it with more fluid and see if the problem goes away.

Thanks again,

Adam

Adam,
If you're not entirely sure how much developer is needed to properly fill the tank, assemble the tank with reels and insert, and fill it with water till the water starts to rise into the top cone, then dump it out and measure it. Then you will know for sure for next time

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

paulbarden said:
Adam,
If you're not entirely sure how much developer is needed to properly fill the tank, assemble the tank with reels and insert, and fill it with water till the water starts to rise into the top cone, then dump it out and measure it. Then you will know for sure for next time

Yeah, but that's the sensible way!

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 11, 2015

Just to complete the diagnosis for those who may search and read this thread later and still be confused...

In a Yaschica Mat 124G TLR the 120 roll film travels vertically, thus the images are oriented vertically. When that same film is tank-developed it is usually oriented horizontally after being wound onto spiral reels. This places one vertical edge of the images at the top of the tank.

In a tank with insufficient developer solution that vertical edge is now exposed above the developer for the full length of the film. It only gets temporarily submerged when the tank is inverted for agitation, so it does not develop fully.

When the film is then placed in the fixer that underdeveloped strip is then dissolved away more completely, thus leaving a relatively more transparent strip across that edge of the negative.

This more transparent edge then prints (or scans) as a darker band, since more light can now pass through it. The wavy lines of differing density within the darker band result from sloshing inside the tank after agitation, before the liquid eventually settles down and becomes still again between agitation cycles.

Sorry for the long-winded details, but it's almost a sure thing that someone else brand new to film developing with the same problem will search and arrive here, and not necessarily be able to fully visualize what actually happened.

Ken

(Note to the original poster: It might also be nice to request the moderators to rename this thread to something more search-friendly. Like maybe "Help! Dark bands across my picture edges!" or something equally as dramatic...

Francesco_from_Rome · Feb 11, 2015

Adam W said:
I assume so. I used 500ml of liquid, which is what the Paterson tank says to use.

Which tank ? I have a Paterson fit for one 120 roll or two 135 ones, and 500 ml has always been enough for me. I wonder if the reel was completely pushed down on the central rod (which is an user error that I am always afraid of).

Francesco

Ian Grant · Feb 11, 2015

Sometimes the reels creep up the column, I've always used about 10% more developer than Paterson say to use. If you fill to much you wn't get good agitation.

Ian

darkosaric · Feb 11, 2015

Remember that you should always have some air on top - not 100% full tank: in that way when you agitate it will flow and mix ok and film will get fresh chemicals on the surface.

EDIT: I see Ian has already explained this

Truzi · Feb 11, 2015

If it is a two-reel tank and you only are developing one roll of film, still use two reels (if you can make them fit). The one with film goes first, and the empty one on top. This will keep the lower reel (with the film) from moving around during agitation. This can help prevent what Francesco_from_Rome and Ian mentioned.

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Just to complete the diagnosis for those who may search and read this thread later and still be confused...

In a Yaschica Mat 124G TLR the 120 roll film travels vertically, thus the images are oriented vertically. When that same film is tank-developed it is usually oriented horizontally after being wound onto spiral reels. This places one vertical edge of the images at the top of the tank.

In a tank with insufficient developer solution that vertical edge is now exposed above the developer for the full length of the film. It only gets temporarily submerged when the tank is inverted for agitation, so it does not develop fully.

When the film is then placed in the fixer that underdeveloped strip is then dissolved away more completely, thus leaving a relatively more transparent strip across that edge of the negative.

This more transparent edge then prints (or scans) as a darker band, since more light can now pass through it. The wavy lines of differing density within the darker band result from sloshing inside the tank after agitation, before the liquid eventually settles down and becomes still again between agitation cycles.

Sorry for the long-winded details, but it's almost a sure thing that someone else brand new to film developing with the same problem will search and arrive here, and not necessarily be able to fully visualize what actually happened.

Ken

(Note to the original poster: It might also be nice to request the moderators to rename this thread to something more search-friendly. Like maybe "Help! Dark bands across my picture edges!" or something equally as dramatic...

Thanks, Ken. I actually appreciate the detailed explanation.

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

Mods: please rename this thread to "Help! Dark bands across my picture edges!"

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

I used the Paterson tank for one 120/two 35. Another possibility is I simply measured incorrectly. I'll follow up in a few days when I do the next roll.

SuzanneR · Feb 11, 2015

Adam W said:
Mods: please rename this thread to "Help! Dark bands across my picture edges!"

Done!

Sirius Glass · Feb 11, 2015

As others said probably not enough chemicals. With the tank open and the reels in the tank, measure how much liquid is needed to completely cover the film with some liquid above the top film edge.

mwdake · Feb 11, 2015

I used the Paterson tank for one 120/two 35. Another possibility is I simply measured incorrectly. I'll follow up in a few days when I do the next roll.

Even if using the single 120 tank make sure you put the little spring clip above the reel on the spool, otherwise the reel can slide up a little.

MartinP · Feb 11, 2015

Paterson tanks haven't needed the little clip, or been supplied with one, for decades. Only the original version used that. The newer ones, in at least the last thirty years, since I've been using the Super System 4 tanks, rely on a close and springy fit between the inside of the reel and the centre core to keep the reel in place - in my experience this works. It could be possible that third-party reels and/or tanks don't achieve this.

To make doubly sure of covering the spiral, as clearly something went wrong for the OP, use 550ml or 600ml of all fluids and roll an elastic band down the centre core to the top of the reel in order to keep it right at the bottom of the core.

mwdake · Feb 11, 2015

Paterson tanks haven't needed the little clip, or been supplied with one, for decades. Only the original version used that. The newer ones, in at least the last thirty years, since I've been using the Super System 4 tanks, rely on a close and springy fit between the inside of the reel and the centre core to keep the reel in place - in my experience this works. It could be possible that third-party reels and/or tanks don't achieve this.

oops, I think you are correct. It just shows how old I am.
I have several System 4 tanks and several Super System 4 tanks.
I never use the Super ones as I just prefer the older ones and that's what I learned on years ago.
I never even noticed the Super tanks did not come with the little spring clip thing.

I guess I should have said...
If using the older System 4 tanks...

Nodda Duma · Feb 11, 2015

Ian Grant said:
Sometimes the reels creep up the column, I've always used about 10% more developer than Paterson say to use. If you fill to much you wn't get good agitation.

Ian

I was going to reply and say this. 500 ml is enough for 120 in the Paterson tank, but the roll set at 120 can creep up.

Zathras · Feb 11, 2015

Is that Oceana High School?

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

Zathras said:
Is that Oceana High School?

Sure is. I'm the librarian there.

Zathras · Feb 11, 2015

Adam W said:
Sure is. I'm the librarian there.

I went there for one semester. They used to have a decent photography class. I went to the OTHER school for the rest of my high school career.

Adam W · Feb 11, 2015

Zathras said:
I went there for one semester. They used to have a decent photography class. I went to the OTHER school for the rest of my high school career.

You might be interested in this:

A couple months ago I found an exposed roll of 120 while spelunking in the abandoned Oceana darkroom. Got it processed and I scanned it. After a lot of photoshop work, I was able to get one useable frame. Someone who should know dates it to 1983.

Help! Dark bands across my picture edges

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