Help : D70 -> Medium Format

snaggs · Feb 18, 2005

I've got a bit tired of the "stress" associated with digital. Recently my large format friend gave me his complete large format darkroom, 2 enlargers, film washer, chemicals and a 2 foot high stack of Oriental Seagull papers (which I've been told are great).

So I've been thinking of just waving away the whole digital thing for a while and not worrying about megapixels etc etc.

I've never had medium format, but I can trade in my D70+3 lenses and exchange it for a

Rollei 6008 SRC 1000 (in great condition)
6000 Back
6006 Back
Polaroid Back
Prism
Rollei 80mm HFT
Rolleigon 150mm HFT
Rolleigon 50mm HFT

Its tempting, Rollei is the brand I lusted for along time ago as a magazine shopoer and the 6x6 format look interesting. My concerns;

1. Since digital backs are soooo expensive, Ill never be able to put one on should film vanish in the future. Is putting any money in a MF lens system foolish in this day?

2. Will I be disappointed with the quality of MF? Ive seen reviews about how the Canon 1ds is better than any MF camera (they showed some RB67 pix vs it on Luminous Landscapes)... Am I just being sentimental about film? Should I just be buying into the Canon system?

3. Should I just skip MF all together a just get a Linhof Technica III for peanuts.

Thanks in advance for feedback,

Daniel.

PS. The worst thing about digital is having to have your Body+Lens+imaging device (CCD) all from the same company!

eric · Feb 18, 2005

snaggs said:
I've got a bit tired of the "stress" associated with digital. Recently my large format friend gave me his complete large format darkroom, 2 enlargers, film washer, chemicals and a 2 foot high stack of Oriental Seagull papers (which I've been told are great).

How come I don't have friends like these?

I've never had medium format, but I can trade in my D70+3 lenses and exchange it for a
[snip]

Absolutely, trade it in! Do it now before next year when your d70 is worth about as much as a floating point error Pentium PC.

2. Will I be disappointed with the quality of MF? Ive seen reviews about how the Canon 1ds is better than any MF camera (they showed some RB67 pix vs it on Luminous Landscapes)... Am I just being sentimental about film? Should I
just be buying into the Canon system?

I think I saw this and unless you want to take pictures of bland buildings and cropping a section so you can put it on a web site, then go for it.

3. Should I just skip MF all together a just get a Linhof Technica III for peanuts.

Well, now you are talking!

I'll gladly take a few inches of that Oriental Seagull if 2' stack is too big for you to use

PS. The worst thing about digital is having to have your Body+Lens+imaging device (CCD) all from the same company!

And that company sometimes doesn't even remotely have anything to do with photography!

bobfowler · Feb 18, 2005

If it's po$$ible, keep your digital gear and just buy the Rollei system. You can always use the D70 for family snapshots and use the Rollei for "serious" work. The purchase cost/resale-value-after-a-year-or-two ratio of a D70 is NOT going to be anything to write home about. Digital cameras are a lot like new cars - they lose a lot of resale value as soon as they leave the showroom. 6 months later, there's a newer-latest-greatest-model and the resale value drops even more.

The Rollei system is a damn fine camera that will serve you well for many, many years. I wouldn't worry too much about "the death of film", film isn't going anywhere for quite a long time. The Rollei won't become obsolete when a new film stock comes out, you're not limited to the characteristics (and technology) of one image sensor, and the Rollei lenses are fantastic.

Oh yes... about the Canon 1Ds being "better than medium format"... That is pure, marketing bullshit hype. People who "drink the Magic Kool-Aid" might swear that it's true, but they're ignoring the fact that a specific camera is just ONE tool, and there isn't ONE tool that does EVERYTHING best. That's the reason a lot of us have a large variety of cameras - we use the right tool for the job at hand.

My $.02

naaldvoerder · Feb 18, 2005

Yes, if, against all odds, you do decide to stay with digital, send me the Oriental Seagull.

Just kidding go for the Rollei!!!!

JJ

Buster6X6 · Feb 18, 2005

'' (What Bob said)

rbarker · Feb 18, 2005

Daniel, the Rollie kit you describe would be an excellent setup - if medium format actually fits your shooting style and most-frequent subject matter. Rather than relying on the marketing blather of digital zealots, you might be better off actually assessing your imaging needs. That might point you to MF or even LF.

I'd agree with Bob Fowler, though. If you can afford to keep the D70 for what it's good for (and, it's a pretty good digital), do so. You'd only get a fraction of what you paid for it, anyway.

MattCarey · Feb 18, 2005

snaggs said:
Will I be disappointed with the quality of MF? Ive seen reviews about how the Canon 1ds is better than any MF camera (they showed some RB67 pix vs it on Luminous Landscapes)... Am I just being sentimental about film? Should I just be buying into the Canon system?

Boy this would be a good troll post for APUG!

I just went over to Luminous Landscapes very very briefly and checked this out. What I saw was a comparison of the Canon to the 6x7 digital back (This was on a contax 645 in the review I saw) right? That isn't comparing digital to film.

Let's see, a 6x6 Velvia/sensia (insert favorite film here) chrome vs. the Canon...which would win...

If you just want shear numbers, the back they showed was 22megapixels. 6cm is ~2in, which at 3000 pixels/inch is about 36megapixels if I did my sums correctly.

Now, 6cm is more like 2.25", and 3000 pixels/inch isn't really the resolution of film. You get the point.

That said--what do you shoot, why do you shoot. Why did you pick the D70 in the first place? The MF gear will be a lot slower for taking pictures and even slower for viewing the images. That isn't a bad thing, but it may not fit your style.

I recently wanted to get some nice portraits of my little boy at the piano. I had my 4x5 ready, but in another room (to keep it hidden from said little boy while I did some setup). I put the boy in the chair to see how well he could do on his own (he is only 20 months). At this point, my wife thought this was so cute that she got out her D70 and rattled off a dozen pictures. She had them uploaded to a website for the grandparents to see before I could get my 4x5 in place. A week later, when I finally got the time to develop the negatives, I found that my little boy moves faster than my shutter...crisp piano/blurry boy.

Which was the better camera for that application?

Well, probably my N90...it has film and a good flash.

Matt

MattCarey · Feb 18, 2005

p.s.

I work for a company that makes hard drives.

So, by all means, keep the D-70. Better yet, get the 22MP back for the MF camera.

Matt
(inspired by the Next)

Mongo · Feb 18, 2005

If you don't go for this deal and your friend would be interested in trading for a Digital Rebel with three lenses, let me know. I'd make the trade in a heartbeat. I'd toss in a couple of memory cards, a remote...everything I have tied up in the Rebel system. I'd even throw in an adapter that would let your friend use Nikon lenses on the Rebel. (Stop-down metering only, but at least old manual Nikon glass will meter on the Rebel.)

Why would I make this trade? Because digital has uses, but not for the work that I'm doing today. The Rebel's just an expensive toy that I never use. For others, it's a great system that delivers images they want. But I'm spending all of my time with film these days, and I'm very happy.

You'll have to make this call based on what you want to do. I'm in no way anti-digital, but I really have no use for it in the creative work that I do. Only you can decide if the same is true for you, or if you can be happy with the D70.

Good luck with your decision.

Woolliscroft · Feb 18, 2005

Cannon = 16mp (if it's the camera I'm thinking of), 6 x 6 = approx 40 mp equivalent. Cannon better? I don't think so + plus you can get a decent medium format camera for a tenth of the price. A fine grained 35mm film can match it and blow the D70 to hell. As for film dying, when was the last time you saw a petrol station that sold memory cards? Now when was the last time you saw one that didn't sell film?

David.

Digidurst · Feb 18, 2005

Daniel, I understand your angst! I started with an Olympus C4040, then it was an Olympus C5050. Then I got a Minolta A1. From there I bought a digital Rebel and then I had to have the 20D. Considering how long the 20D (while great for what it can do) will be 'current' and considering the high rate of turn over for dslr's, there is no way in h*e*double L that I would shell out the bucks neccesary for 1 series Canon.
On the flipside I have an old Graflex 22 that still works and that I still use. Also have a Horseman LE that I think I'd had run over with my VW to destroy; it'll also be with me for a long time.
Gosh, is there a point to all this rambling on? You betcha!
Get your medium format system - you will use it for years. If you have to sell your D70 to finance it, then go for it. It's not like you won't be able to buy another for pennies on the dollar in a few months. If you can keep the D70 then by all means, do so.
The important thing is that you keep shooting. After all, it's not the camera but you that supplies the creative force behind the lens. And if some digital measurebator tells you you're insane and that you won't be able to get film for *insert camera model here* then tell them to go pound salt. Then you could politely suggest that they seek professional help for their irrational fear of film.
Have fun with whatever you pick up

Edit: Just thought I should add that there is nothing wrong with digital capture. I guess I might have come off as harsh because I just hate it when someone bashes someone else's gear.

MattCarey · Feb 18, 2005

One important question--

what lenses do you have? The lenses should hold their value better than the D70 since future film and digital Nikon SLR's will still use them.

He may have more money in glass than body, in which case some of the arguments presented are not totally valid.

Matt

eric · Feb 18, 2005

While we were all sleeping, Canon just announced an upgrade... EOS 350D. I wonder if Nikon is countering with an upgrade that will plunge the price of the D70.

Dave Parker · Feb 18, 2005

HUH????? was there a question here?

go for the film man, go for the film...

LMFAO

zenrhino · Feb 19, 2005

Both/And

Keep the D70. I have one myself and there are plenty of things one might use it for. In my case, photojournalism stuff where transmission time is critical.

But also get the MF setup. Even if all you get is a Holga or Seagull TLR, spend a few bucks and get MF. The first time you see what kind of stuff comes out of a freakin' 6x6cm negative, you will be STUNNED, I promise.

Christopher Colley · Feb 19, 2005

eric said:
I think I saw this and unless you want to take pictures of bland buildings and cropping a section so you can put it on a web site, then go for it.

hah! that has to be the funniest line I've read today

snaggs · Feb 19, 2005

Thanks guys. The lenses I have are

Sigma 12-24
Nikon 10.5 Fisheye
Tamron SP90 Macro
Sb600 Flash

I also have a F65 and 50mm f1.4 which I'd keep for happy snaps. Basically, it really seems like the Rollei is a bargain.

Also, can anyone tell me about the Lenses? None are "PQ", whatever that means.. and some are Rolleigon.. can someone explain what difference this makes?

My shooting style is landscape and family portraits. I've only been doing photography for 18 months, and digital has been great to learn on (instant feedback). You can see some samples of what I shoot on my site.

http://www.pbase.com/snaggs

The reason the Rollei gear is soo cheap, is that its just not well known in Perth, Western Australia. Theres no dealer or shop which really sells it, so its not used by many pro's here.

I couldn't afford to buy the Rollei gear and keep my D70. Id probably end up getting the Linhof either way, as its also cheap. The advantage of the Rollei to me is that it seems easy to use, and not just a studio cam.

Daniel.

Aggie · Feb 19, 2005

Hmm analog photographers users group. We are supposed to help you decide between a digital and a film camera? Seriously I have a digigizmo. It was top of the line for about 90 days. It also makes a good paperweight. As to film disappearing, I think those who do oil painting lamented the demise of their supplies when photography showed up in the 1800's. It may get more expensive (might even approach the cost of replacing digital stuff, but that I seriously doubt will happen) we will have film around for at least our life time if not our grand kids lives.

GO FOR THE ROLLIE

Woolliscroft · Feb 19, 2005

Regarding film dying, people often compare the situation with records giving way to CD and, more recently video tape giving way to DVD. The situations are different. With records, the companies found that they could get us to pay more for something with worse sound quality (if you looked after the records and played them on a proper turntable) and that was cheaper to make, transport and store. We might even buy records we already had just to get them on the new medium. With DVD likewise, they could get us to pay a lot more for something (possibly marginally better) that was cheaper to make transport and store.

OK, film makers like Kodak and Fuji make digital kit. Ilford make Inkjet paper, but if you look at their published numbers, traditional media are still the bulk of their turnover so they don't have the same motivation to dump their traditional products. There is a certain amount of evidence for panic with non mainstream lines being dropped, but the film maker that keeps its nerve should clean up. The demand is still vast and some film makers don't make anything digital. They thus have a very strong motivation to keep selling us film.

David.

NikoSperi · Feb 19, 2005

snaggs said:
Recently my large format friend gave me his complete large format darkroom, 2 enlargers, film washer, chemicals and a 2 foot high stack of Oriental Seagull papers (which I've been told are great).

So... this friend of yours... where can I meet him?

If you really can't keep the D70 (which is likely to get hammered not next year, but next week when Nikon announces a new line-up)... go for it.

Andy K · Feb 19, 2005

There is no real choice here, go for the MF set up. I recently purchased an ancient Agfa Isolette folding 6x6 camera. The first 12 negs out of it blew everything I'd ever done before into a cocked hat! Sharpness? I nearly cut myself looking at them!

Sell the DSLR before it's yesterday's news and only worth a dozen rolls of HP5!

mark · Feb 19, 2005

Trust nothing on luminous lanscape. He is definately not objective about anything.

I would keep the D-70 if I could but if getting into MF or even into LF meant selling it I would do it in a heart beat. I have not been doing LF stuff for long but it seems that I have a greater selection of films now than I did when I started, BW and color.

As for lens names and what the different initals mean I have no clue. Personally I think manufactures just slap an intial on a lens so they can charge more, but I know nothing about lenses except what their purpose is.

gr82bart · Feb 20, 2005

snaggs said:
Is putting any money in a MF lens system foolish in this day?

No.

Will I be disappointed with the quality of MF?

No.

Am I just being sentimental about film?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends what you want to do. If you want to do pixelography - digital capture than use a pixel editor to manipulate your digital capture and print using a printer, than go by the way of a digital camera. If you want to do photography - then buy a film camera.

You did say you wanted to do landscpaes and portraits, I think in another post. Than the Rollei is it if you want to be serious. I also read that the digital allowed to learn quicker. Although this may be true, I am not sure what you learned. I honestly believe that in order to really learn photography - to see the light, to really understand capture - you need a film camera.

Should I just be buying into the Canon system?

If you already have a Nikon digital system, I don't see the logic in switching to a Canon system.

Should I just skip MF all together a just get a Linhof Technica III for peanuts

I can't answer that one. I don't know anything about that camera, but from what read it's a great camera.

The worst thing about digital is having to have your Body+Lens+imaging device (CCD) all from the same company!

Well, not really. You could have a Nikon body with a Sigma lens and the CCD is from Kodak. Or a Canon body, lens from Tamron and the CCD is from Sony. Plus there's more combinations. Anyway, this is all moot - get the Rollei.

Regards, Art.

Nicole · Feb 20, 2005

Daniel, my D70 has been collecting dust since I went back to 35mm and 6x6. Haven't looked back since. The D70 has actually hardly been used and am now selling it. For digital snaps I still have a great little Olympus C5050 but even that hasn't been used since Nov 2003. By the time I want to use it, it most probably won't be compatible with anything. LOL. Love film and manual and also just getting my hands dirty in the darkroom - purist at heart and nothing like it! Have fun!!!
Kind regards from West Australia,
Nicole

snaggs · Feb 23, 2005

Well, I looked at the prices of accessories.... and that scared me. Just a film insert costs more than a complete DSLR here! So I was a bit worried about repairs etc. Ive decided to go Leica M + Linhoff Technika combo.

Thanks for all the help! Its a real shame Leica, Zeiss, Contax, Rollei, Voitlander, Linhoff, Schneider etc dont all get together to produce a new standard for backs and a lens mount like the Olympus 4/3 standard, except better quality! (say 30mm x 30mm).

Daniel.

Help : D70 -> Medium Format

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