Hello and Daytime long exposures black and white

David Hatton · Feb 19, 2011

Hello all,
I'm a long time lurker from the U.K. and West Turkey so, hi.
I have just acquired a pentax 67ii and I love it! I was wondering what a typical set up would be for long exposures - during the day. I would be obliged for any help.
I have a sturdy tripod, cable releases etc but was wondering about the camera set-up really for this type of exposure.
Thanks:confused:

likemarlonbrando · Feb 19, 2011

you would need a strong neutral density filter would help. and small apertures.

David Hatton · Feb 19, 2011

Sorry , I should have mentioned that I use FP4+ film, developer is prescysol ef and I don't want to use nd filters

paul_c5x4 · Feb 19, 2011

Pin hole and/or one of these --> Welding Glass, but that has the same effect as an ND filter..

Jeff Kubach · Feb 19, 2011

As mention before, use small apertures. You could look into some B&W filters, yellow, orange,red, etc.

Jeff

Ian Grant · Feb 19, 2011

Daytime long exposure is an oxymoron here in Turkey It's relatively easy in the UK

Turkey it'd either be an ND filter or Pan F in Perceptol - because that's a developer that needs reduced film speed, FP4 is Sunny 16 + a bit. As you know I work hand held 1/125th @f22 with Delta 100 and that's with 5x4, a Pentax 67 lens is probably better at f16.

I do have a Notion . . . . . . . . . . negative/print that was a 30 second exposure, you saw me take it It means working first light or dusk, or an ND filter.

UK then there's no issues getting film, so Pan F & 25 EI will mean longer exposures are easy, but I never find it an issue with 100 ISO emulsions, except the handful of really good summer days.

Ian

David Hatton · Feb 19, 2011

Hi Ian,
I'm in the Uk a the moment. I've had a look at ND filters and they are EXTORTIONATE! Pan F may do it for me if I use it early morning or early evening. What about development? Is prescysol OK for that film? I had a look at the welding glass mentioned by Paul (many thanks Paul) but I think I'd need a ampere conversion chart

olwick · Feb 20, 2011

Use a 10 stop ND filter such as the Lee Big Stopper or the B+W version. There are apps that allow you to calculate the exposure too if you want quick and easy exposure info. Just meter normally, add the filter, adjust exposure and away you go. Very simple actually.

mickster · Feb 20, 2011

Not sure why you don't want to use ND filters if they would give you the times you're after. You can get them cheap from 7dayshop.com if yr in the UK.

Otherwise, in addition to using slow film and small apertures as suggested above, use reciprocity failure to your advantage. Pick a film with poor reciprocity characteristics (Ilford's FP4 or Delta 100 for instance), and these will help you get longer times. Steer clear of Fuji Neopan 100.

Vaughn · Feb 20, 2011

mirror lock up -- to reduce vibration

Ian Grant · Feb 21, 2011

David Hatton said:
Hi Ian,
I'm in the Uk a the moment. I've had a look at ND filters and they are EXTORTIONATE! Pan F may do it for me if I use it early morning or early evening. What about development? Is prescysol OK for that film? I had a look at the welding glass mentioned by Paul (many thanks Paul) but I think I'd need a ampere conversion chart

Prescysol or Pyrocat HD will be fine.

Look for the Coking ND filters, or try SRB Griturn.

Ian

stillsilver · Feb 21, 2011

PanF+ (rated @ 25), Perceptol, and ND filters.

Mike

polyglot · Feb 21, 2011

You can try using a slow IR film like IR820 with an R72 filter, which will give you EI1 in Sunny-16 light (that's a 2s exposure at f/22 in the noonday sun!) and probably slower still with clouds.

Edit: you can also use a slow film like Adox CHS25 (Efke-25) at EI16, slap on a Red-25 for about 3.5 stops and then a CPL for 1.5 more stops, which gives you about EI0.5, or 4s at f/22 in full sun, probably more like 8s with reciprocity failure. Much, much longer under clouds.

David Hatton · Feb 21, 2011

mickster said:
Not sure why you don't want to use ND filters if they would give you the times you're after. You can get them cheap from 7dayshop.com if yr in the UK.

Otherwise, in addition to using slow film and small apertures as suggested above, use reciprocity failure to your advantage. Pick a film with poor reciprocity characteristics (Ilford's FP4 or Delta 100 for instance), and these will help you get longer times. Steer clear of Fuji Neopan 100.

Hi,
The reason I don't want to use ND filters is twofold. firstly there is the cost, which can be phenominal! Second, I don't like the idea of putting a piece of glass/plastic in front of a good lens.
I use fp4 as my standard film but I'm advised by others to use panf - a much slower film. What to do, what to do?:confused:

David Hatton · Feb 21, 2011

Ian Grant said:
Prescysol or Pyrocat HD will be fine.

Ian

Thanks Ian. I looked at several posts here and other places on the internet and it seems that panf can be really fussy and grainy. Any thoughts?

Ian Grant · Feb 21, 2011

David Hatton said:
Thanks Ian. I looked at several posts here and other places on the internet and it seems that panf can be really fussy and grainy. Any thoughts?

Pan F can never be grainy it's too inherently fine grained, but if you drop the box speed and compensate bu cutting the dev time then it's easy to control the contrast.

I've 6 rolls sat ready for testing but until I use them I can't really recommend a dev time. Delta 100 is another good choice but a stop faster.

Ian

paul_c5x4 · Feb 21, 2011

The last time I used PanF+, I rated it at E.I.25 and developed in D76 @ 1+3 - In 120, grain was difficult to see. I would suggest getting a couple of rolls and trying it.

polyglot · Feb 21, 2011

Pan-F is not grainy. It is the antithesis of grainy. I mean, it is a film and it has grain, but it's very fine and certainly finer than FP4. I've got prints from Pan-F that are about 30" on a side from 6x7 (enlargement of 11x) and you can barely see the grain on close inspection. Acros has similarly fine, low-contrast grain but it's about 1.5 stops faster.

Pan-F is by default quite contrasty but everyone here is suggesting you pull it a stop, which will mean you get fairly normal contrast.

You need to give up on your choice of film or your refusal to use filters or both. One way or another, if you want a long exposure, you need to reduce the amount of light getting into the camera and reduce the film's sensitivity to that light. You can get perfectly good filters in the $25-50 range that will not harm your image quality (you will not be able to tell the difference in a blind comparison) except in cases of extreme dynamic range where they can cause flare. By using an older style emulsion, you can also take advantage of reciprocity failure; Pan-F does it to an extent but the Adox films are much more dramatic.

David Hatton · Feb 22, 2011

polyglot said:
You need to give up on your choice of film or your refusal to use filters or both. One way or another, if you want a long exposure, you need to reduce the amount of light getting into the camera and reduce the film's sensitivity to that light. You can get perfectly good filters in the $25-50 range that will not harm your image quality (you will not be able to tell the difference in a blind comparison) except in cases of extreme dynamic range where they can cause flare. By using an older style emulsion, you can also take advantage of reciprocity failure; Pan-F does it to an extent but the Adox films are much more dramatic.

Thanks for your reply and thanks to everyone who responded. I think you're right. I've found some cheap ND filters at the websites suggested and I'm going to run a few rolls of PanF through the camera and see what happens.
Cheers All
David

brucemuir · Feb 24, 2011

You could also consider a Polarizer or red #25 filter and I seriously doubt you will suffer any image degradation.

I saw a guy on the web (from Eastern Europe I think) that would do daytime long exposures from a tripod and then would pick up the tripod for movement toward the end of the exposure. He achieved brilliant abstract architecture/street scenes with a mix of sharp elements & movement/blur.

Does anyone remember who I'm referring to? There was a short vid on the web showing him work.

Yamaotoko · Feb 24, 2011

David Hatton said:
I use fp4 as my standard film but I'm advised by others to use panf - a much slower film. What to do, what to do?:confused:

Or try to find something even slower... I don't know if there are any current productions around, but I have a good stash of Ilford Micro-Neg pan that I love for long daytime exposures. Originally an iso6 film, my stash is getting quite old (40+ years) and now measures an iso of 2, while still holding full contrast. On a bright sunny day here in Australia that gives me about a 2 second exposure at f32, 4-5 seconds with a coloured filter. ...if only it was still regularly available!

Hello and Daytime long exposures black and white

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