Helios 44 for Nikon?

removedacct1 · Apr 29, 2020

Can anyone advise me on how to choose a properly re-engineered Helios 44 lens to use on a Nikon F? I know there are many sellers offering various adaptations of the Helios lens, but some use an adapter with a cheap lens in the rear to adapt it to focus at infinity, and some rebuild the lens housing to adapt it without resorting to cheapo optical adapters. What would you recommend?
Would I be better off buying a Zeiss Biotar and adapting it? If so, what is involved? Thanks.

Neil Grant · Apr 29, 2020

..I think the flange to focal plane is wrong for m42 onto Nikon F. You won't get infinity focus unless the whole optical train can be moved closer to the film. I think some eBay sellers offer spacers to spread the elements further apart to achieve the same (ish) effect. There are a number of Helios 44 models to chose from - I think the nicest ones are those with preset diaphragms with a greater number of blades compared to the 'auto' versions. These give a rounder aperture and better bokeh. The '44-3' (from Belarus) looks a bit more modern than others and claims 'MC' too but is still best used with a hood. GOod luck anyway.

Donald Qualls · Apr 29, 2020

Neil Grant said:
..I think the flange to focal plane is wrong for m42 onto Nikon F.

Correct; I just checked, and Nikon F is just over 1mm longer flange distance than M42 (46.50 mm vs. 45.46 for M42). The same optics are available in Leica M mount, and seemingly in M39, both of which are even shorter flange distance. The only way you're going to get infinity focus on a longer flange distance than M42 is with an adapter that has built-in optics, and the simplest of these (a negative achromat doublet) amounts to a tele-converter, as it will increase the effective focal length of the mounted lens.

blockend · Apr 29, 2020

paulbarden said:
Can anyone advise me on how to choose a properly re-engineered Helios 44 lens to use on a Nikon F?

The 50mm f2 Nikkor resembles the look of a Helios, especially in its pre-AI incarnations.

Dan Fromm · Apr 29, 2020

Paul, if you can make do with a Soviet 50/2 Planar clone in native Nikon F mount there's always the Helios-81.

Ian Grant · Apr 29, 2020

blockend said:
The 50mm f2 Nikkor resembles the look of a Helios, especially in its pre-AI incarnations.

But it doesn't resemble the look of the CZJ 58mm f2 Biotar at full aperture which is why people want the Helios. Cheaper to buy the genuine article I picked up a Praktina II with a near mint 58mm f2 Biotar 18 months ago for £35 (around $50). Why buy second best.

I had a Zenit E and 58mm Helios in the late 60's and it was a superb lens, I picked up a newer version 58mm Helios with an Auto Diaphragm for £5 last Autumn and it's not Biotar quality despite what people say.

Paul it's far cheaper to buy the real thing with a body, Praktina. M42 or Exacta, they sell for far more on their own. Mine came from a highly reputable dealer, it was cheap because the camera body had been engraved and while OK wasn;t in the same mint condition as the lens. I'm after the 75mm Biotar next

Ian

blockend · Apr 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
But it doesn't resemble the look of the CZJ 58mm f2 Biotar at full aperture which is why people want the Helios.

It doesn't have the same "swirly bokeh" (uncorrected astigmatism) at full aperture, I agree, the Nikkor Sonnar is more highly corrected. East German Biotars are probably the way to go.

removedacct1 · Apr 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
But it doesn't resemble the look of the CZJ 58mm f2 Biotar at full aperture which is why people want the Helios.
Paul it's far cheaper to buy the real thing with a body, Praktina. M42 or Exacta, they sell for far more on their own.

Ian

Thank you Ian. That's kinda what I was expecting to hear, honestly. I see listings for an Exakta with a 58mm Biotar that seem like an option. Of the Praktina/Exakta types, are there clear winners in the bunch I should lean towards? Thanks!

removedacct1 · Apr 29, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Correct; I just checked, and Nikon F is just over 1mm longer flange distance than M42 (46.50 mm vs. 45.46 for M42). The same optics are available in Leica M mount, and seemingly in M39, both of which are even shorter flange distance. The only way you're going to get infinity focus on a longer flange distance than M42 is with an adapter that has built-in optics, and the simplest of these (a negative achromat doublet) amounts to a tele-converter, as it will increase the effective focal length of the mounted lens.

Yes, I know that. This is why I spoke specifically about re-engineered Helios 44s, adapted to account for the difference.
Adding an adapter with additional optics is NOT the only way to convert the Helios to F mount: this is what I was inquiring about:

Does anyone have any experience with a Helios 44 adapted in this manner?

awty · Apr 29, 2020

I paid around $50 for a Zenit 3 with a Helios-44, think you can still get them pretty cheap. I would first suggest to try a cheap combination before investing too much time and money, to make sure its what you want. I believe the later models arent so swirly. I have only developed one roll from mine, a bit more practice I might do a better job....if I ever get around to it.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 29, 2020

If I ever buy 50mm lens for my Nikon cameras it is going to be Helios-81H (N). I had it with Kiev-19 and this lens was running in circles around overpriced over glorified Leica 50 f2 lenses (which I have tried many).

awty · Apr 29, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
If I ever buy 50mm lens for my Nikon cameras it is going to be Helios-81H (N). I had it with Kiev-19 and this lens was running in circles around overpriced over glorified Leica 50 f2 lenses (which I have tried many).

Nice lens, must get me one.
Nikon F is a way better camera than the Zenit 3m.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 30, 2020

awty said:
Nice lens, must get me one.
Nikon F is a way better camera than the Zenit 3m.

I have Nikkormat and EM and would touch any Zenit with ten feet pole.

SilverShutter · Apr 30, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
I have Nikkormat and EM and would touch any Zenit with ten feet pole.

Sure, you will miss out on it then. Zenits are far from perfect, but they can be fun. Certainly I have enjoyed shooting with them just as I have with other cameras, including my Nikon FM.

Regardless, the advantage of the M42 Helios 44 is it can be mounted on a bunch of great M42 cameras like the Spotmatics and the Yashicas and even adapted (except to Nikon) to some nice Pentax K, Canon FD and EOS, and Minolta SR and A mount cameras, although with manual stop down required.

Ian Grant · Apr 30, 2020

blockend said:
It doesn't have the same "swirly bokeh" (uncorrected astigmatism) at full aperture, I agree, the Nikkor Sonnar is more highly corrected. East German Biotars are probably the way to go.

All Biotars are East German, unless you count the early Exacta mount ones but they were made in the same factory under the Third Reich Surprisingly the CZJ T (coated) Biotar is less prone to flare than my current Helios which is in excellent condition.

paulbarden said:
Thank you Ian. That's kinda what I was expecting to hear, honestly. I see listings for an Exakta with a 58mm Biotar that seem like an option. Of the Praktina/Exakta types, are there clear winners in the bunch I should lean towards? Thanks!

Well I own an Exacta Varex IIb with an f2 Pancolar as well as two Praktina FX cameras with a 50mm Tessar and the 58mm Biotar. the build quality of the Praktina s is superb but we are talking 60+ year old cameras so best seen and handled or from a highly reputable seller.

Th early lenses for Praktinas are pre-set, my two lenses are semi-auto, you pre-cock the lens which opens to full aperture then it stops down automatically on the first pressure of the shutter release which works well.

The reality was I had a really nice Praktina with a Tessar, wanted a Helios 44 for a project but they are getting expensive dealers are buying cheap Zenit Es then selling the lenses for far more than the complete camears, bodies get scrapped. So at the camera fair I go to Helios lenses are often f50-£60 and many aren't in the best condition. A dealer who has a stall (and a shop as well as onine store) had a Praktina FX and Biotar on his web site, I'd seen it at a previous fair but by then had checked out typical copleted sales prices so knew it was a bargain,

My current Helios was on another dealers stall out of interest I asked the price, he picked it up and pressed teh aperture pin, then said a price£40 or £50 then said oh it's got a sticky aperture £5, actually it's fine

In this country good Zenit E's can be found really cheap at car boot sales, I guess Garage sales in the US.

Ian

cuthbert · Apr 30, 2020

To be honest I don’t see the need to work on a Helios 44 to fit a Nikon F. There are a lot o goo M42 bodies to use that lens, or you can get a 44K an use it on a k mount. I also have the Helios 81n for Nikon, very good lens but very different from the 44.

Ian Grant · Apr 30, 2020

cuthbert said:
To be honest I don’t see the need to work on a Helios 44 to fit a Nikon F. There are a lot o goo M42 bodies to use that lens, or you can get a 44K an use it on a k mount. I also have the Helios 81n for Nikon, very good lens but very different from the 44.

Often the reason is so a lens can be used on a DSLR, an adapter to use my Praktina mount Biotar on an EOS isn't cheap but an M2 Helios 44 I can use on my Spotmatics or SV, and EOS mount film and DSLR's. But there's more pleasure using teh Biotar on its original body

I wasn't surprised the project to make new Biotars collapsed altough fully funded the costs were so high, originals are cheaper in Exacta or Praktina mount because they can't be adapted simply to other mount type cameras unlike the M42 Praktica versions.

A lens I'd like to try is the Meyer f2 Domiron but these seem rather rare like the CZJ 75mm f1.5 Biotar which I'd buy if I won the lottery Too expensive otherwise.

But back to you're other point a Zent E and Helios is cheap, and so is a better M42 body, cheaper than adapting for a Nikon.

Ian

blockend · Apr 30, 2020

Ian Grant said:
All Biotars are East German, unless you count the early Exacta mount ones but they were made in the same factory under the Third Reich

Post WW2 any Zeiss double gauss lens was given the Planar name, which is why I think of Biotar lenses as German, West German or East German. I wasn't sure whether the OP was looking for a classic rendering Nikon "Sonnar", or a bokeh tunnel. The most swirl I ever got was the triplets on the Zeiss Ikon Nettar. Widely believed to be supplied by Rodenstock, wide open at f4.5 those 3-element lenses are a light vortex!

Ko.Fe. · Apr 30, 2020

SilverShutter said:
Sure, you will miss out on it then. Zenits are far from perfect, but they can be fun. Certainly I have enjoyed shooting with them just as I have with other cameras, including my Nikon FM.

Regardless, the advantage of the M42 Helios 44 is it can be mounted on a bunch of great M42 cameras like the Spotmatics and the Yashicas and even adapted (except to Nikon) to some nice Pentax K, Canon FD and EOS, and Minolta SR and A mount cameras, although with manual stop down required.

Personally, I like cameras without quirks, working and giving stable results. My fun is within getting the pictures without hassle.
I'd rather use my EOS cameras and Nikon F mount ones. Both systems are proven to work without faults are have huge selection of lenses. I prefer not so old Vivitar wide primes for F and modern EF lenses for EOS.

Zenit cameras were in use only because nothing else was not available or affordable. Not for fun, originally. But, hey, some are riding trabants now, for fun.
https://www.wheels.ca/news/eye-candy-1981-trabant-de-luxe/

Helios 44 in particular copy is often nothing special lens with awful swirl sometime and/or de-centering. Zero advantages, but lottery to get one without defects, IMO.

SilverShutter · Apr 30, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Personally, I like cameras without quirks, working and giving stable results. My fun is within getting the pictures without hassle.
I'd rather use my EOS cameras and Nikon F mount ones. Both systems are proven to work without faults are have huge selection of lenses. I prefer not so old Vivitar wide primes for F and modern EF lenses for EOS.

Zenit cameras were in use only because nothing else was not available or affordable. Not for fun, originally. But, hey, some are riding trabants now, for fun.
https://www.wheels.ca/news/eye-candy-1981-trabant-de-luxe/

Helios 44 in particular copy is often nothing special lens with awful swirl sometime and/or de-centering. Zero advantages, but lottery to get one without defects, IMO.

The whole thing about decentered Helios lenses I think is mostly internet talk, usually followed by a snarky comment of vodka drinking, and really a product of user manipulation rather than how they came out originally. It's a nice 58mm Biotar, sharp stopped down, with coma aberrations that are desirable for specific looks when shot wide open. And also a piece of history.

AgX · Apr 30, 2020

And made in huge numbers...

Ko.Fe. · Apr 30, 2020

SilverShutter said:
The whole thing about decentered Helios lenses I think is mostly internet talk, usually followed by a snarky comment of vodka drinking, and really a product of user manipulation rather than how they came out originally. It's a nice 58mm Biotar, sharp stopped down, with coma aberrations that are desirable for specific looks when shot wide open. And also a piece of history.

Are you playing around my origin? Do you know vodka gives less hangover than whiskey. UK studies, not mine.

I had de-centered one H44. Visible on the pictures.
And if you are still not aware, ex-FSU SLR gear is often junk, especially lenses (comparing to FSU RF lenses and else). Especially, mass produced Zenit and H44 series lenses. This is why I'm more keen to less common H88H lens. But who knows, if second copy is going to be as good as first I had.

If we are about playing smart here, I happen to live now in the same town, where ex chief of Zenit assembly line in Krasnogorsk is running DIY wine shop.
He let me handle his specially assembled Zenit... still junk comparing to Kiev-19 I which given for free once. This kit was also kind of special order, export version, purchased, originally, in Israel.

xtolsniffer · Apr 30, 2020

I used to have a few Zenits with Helios 44 lenses because I couldn't afford anything better. The lenses were dreadful.

mohmad khatab · Apr 30, 2020

Ian Grant said:
All Biotars are East German, unless you count the early Exacta mount ones but they were made in the same factory under the Third Reich Surprisingly the CZJ T (coated) Biotar is less prone to flare than my current Helios which is in excellent condition.

Well I own an Exacta Varex IIb with an f2 Pancolar as well as two Praktina FX cameras with a 50mm Tessar and the 58mm Biotar. the build quality of the Praktina s is superb but we are talking 60+ year old cameras so best seen and handled or from a highly reputable seller.

Th early lenses for Praktinas are pre-set, my two lenses are semi-auto, you pre-cock the lens which opens to full aperture then it stops down automatically on the first pressure of the shutter release which works well.

The reality was I had a really nice Praktina with a Tessar, wanted a Helios 44 for a project but they are getting expensive dealers are buying cheap Zenit Es then selling the lenses for far more than the complete camears, bodies get scrapped. So at the camera fair I go to Helios lenses are often f50-£60 and many aren't in the best condition. A dealer who has a stall (and a shop as well as onine store) had a Praktina FX and Biotar on his web site, I'd seen it at a previous fair but by then had checked out typical copleted sales prices so knew it was a bargain,

My current Helios was on another dealers stall out of interest I asked the price, he picked it up and pressed teh aperture pin, then said a price£40 or £50 then said oh it's got a sticky aperture £5, actually it's fine

In this country good Zenit E's can be found really cheap at car boot sales, I guess Garage sales in the US.

Ian

I am almost crazy because of those numbers that I hear here,
These lenses, in the year before last in my country, are looking for someone to take them for free and receive thanks in return.
I don’t know what happened in the universe.?

StepheKoontz · Apr 30, 2020

blockend said:
It doesn't have the same "swirly bokeh" (uncorrected astigmatism) at full aperture, I agree, the Nikkor Sonnar is more highly corrected. East German Biotars are probably the way to go.

It's not a Sonnar design, it's a Gaussian type. The only "normal" 135 film lens of the Sonnar design was the very early preset Takumar 58mm f2.

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0002/index.htm

Helios 44 for Nikon?

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency