He did it without Photoshop!

Gerald C Koch · Jun 3, 2015

Europan said:
he also begins with soaking the paper in a solution of sulfuric acid. The acid is thus in the gelatine before the bleaching agent. Then he sticks to times, one sees him observe and can hear his .

If you can read Japanese then I welcome your comments. I don't read Japanese so I surmised that this solution was for hardening the emulsion. He washes the print afterwards so any acid would be removed. Silver sulfate is not very sensitive to light. So what is the purpose of soaking the print in sulfuric acid? (Even dilute sulfuric acid damages vegetable fibers.) If you are sure about the acid bath then I appreciate your addition to understanding the process.

pdeeh · Jun 3, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
If you watch the video carefully then there is a lot you can find out.

But not without a healthy background in chemistry, Mr. K, which I do not possess

Gerald C Koch said:
Since a halide must be present it could be hydrochloric acid that he is using. Halide ions and acidity in one.

That's something I didn't know (or understand) before. You've succeeded once again in educating me a bit further!
OT, I suppose that must be part of the way a Chromium intensifier works?

Gerald C Koch · Jun 3, 2015

pdeeh said:
But not without a healthy background in chemistry, Mr. K, which I do not possess

That's something I didn't know (or understand) before. You've succeeded once again in educating me a bit further!
OT, I suppose that must be part of the way a Chromium intensifier works?

Yes, just like IN-4. Which brings up a question. Just what is patenting? It must be something new or novel. But Japanese patent law may be different from the US and UK.

mooseontheloose · Jun 3, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Yes, just like IN-4. Which brings up a question. Just what is patenting? It must be something new or novel. But Japanese patent law may be different from the US and UK.

Or it could be a mis-translation. Despite living in Japan I don't speak Japanese well enough to comment on the official translation, but living here I know that sometimes there can be a disconnect between what people SAY they have done and what they have ACTUALLY done. Who knows what he patented - maybe his intuition? (the process cannot be taught to anyone after all...)

This thread shows that a number of people here can make some pretty good educated guesses as to what he is using, and could probably figure it out with time and patience (he himself failed over 1000 times...though I hope that they made copies of those photos beforehand).

Gerald C Koch · Jun 3, 2015

mooseontheloose said:
Or it could be a mis-translation. Despite living in Japan I don't speak Japanese well enough to comment on the official translation, but living here I know that sometimes there can be a disconnect between what people SAY they have done and what they have ACTUALLY done. Who knows what he patented - maybe his intuition? (the process cannot be taught to anyone after all...)

This thread shows that a number of people here can make some pretty good educated guesses as to what he is using, and could probably figure it out with time and patience (he himself failed over 1000 times...though I hope that they made copies of those photos beforehand).

Funny things patents. Someone actually owns a patent on the blinking colon for digital clocks and time displays.

paul_c5x4 · Jun 3, 2015

Perhaps a clue can be found in this article: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PBR/pbr.html

http://holowiki.nss.rpi.edu/wiki/Silver_Halide_Sensitized_Gelatin also lists a rehalogenating permanganate bleach.

The potassium permanganate bleach is formed by:

Pot. permanganate ................0,4g
Sulfuric acid ...................0,4ml
Sodium chloride....................10g
Water...............................1L

Sirius Glass · Jun 3, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Funny things patents. Someone actually owns a patent on the blinking colon for digital clocks and time displays.

When I get gassy my colon blinks, am I violating that patent?

mooseontheloose · Jun 4, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
Funny things patents. Someone actually owns a patent on the blinking colon for digital clocks and time displays.

Wow, if that's true then I really don't know a thing about patents.

However, it's no secret that I do take many kinds of pronouncements here in Japan with a grain of salt (and sometimes a hefty dose of skepticism).

To be fair, maybe the patent is for one or more of the chemicals he is using - he may have come up with his own variations.

OzJohn · Jun 4, 2015

I'm a bit underwhelmed by all this. To call a bleach and re-development process artistry is gilding the lily a little. The truth is that photo restoration as it was commonly practised pre-digital was more often than not carried out by artists rather than photographers but sometimes by both. No responsible restorer worked on the original so often a photographer copied it, perhaps doing some contributive work like dodging, burning, vignetting and toning but the rest of the job was painted or drawn on the copy print by an artist. Sometimes aspects of the restoration were done by retouching the copy negative, particularly if multiple prints were needed. Like photographers there were artists with sublime skills and others that produced rubbish - not much different to the situation that still exists with digital restorers. OzJohn

pdeeh · Jun 4, 2015

paul_c5x4 said:
Perhaps a clue can be found in this article: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PBR/pbr.html

http://holowiki.nss.rpi.edu/wiki/Silver_Halide_Sensitized_Gelatin also lists a rehalogenating permanganate bleach.

Excellent. Unblinking eye constantly turns up curious stuff and I'd managed to overlook that article

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 4, 2015

I think these are the trays

cliveh said:
Interesting, but the bit I liked was the use of the mini-tray with holes to transfer the print to other solutions without touching it.

http://www.amazon.com/United-Solutions-BS0018-Designed-Contained-Ideal/dp/B003THPXH6

Europan · Jun 4, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
So what is the purpose of soaking the print in sulfuric acid?

You are right, I confused things. He prepares an acid solution, I still believe its sulfuric acid he gives two drops of in water, and adds it to the permanganate solution. We dont know what he first bathes the print in. I dont think its for hardening the gelatine, the photograph is 70 years old. That I can read from the subtitles when the lady is visiting him. Well, I shouldnt harden such an old gelatine. Maybe a buffer for the bleach, like phosphates.

The whole thing bears a little secret. We dont know whether he made a safety duplicate before the chemical treatment. That could be a repro shot or a contact reflection internegative. When you know that the photograph someone brings you is all they have you dont want to be lost with a mistake ruining the unique copy.

pdeeh · Jun 4, 2015

Mainecoonmaniac said:
http://www.amazon.com/United-Solutions-BS0018-Designed-Contained-Ideal/dp/B003THPXH6

Mushroom trays from the local greengrocer would do very well I would have thought, a bonus being that they usually give them away

Gerald C Koch · Jun 4, 2015

Europan said:
You are right, I confused things. He prepares an acid solution, I still believe it’s sulfuric acid he gives two drops of in water, and adds it to the permanganate solution. We don’t know what he first bathes the print in. I don’t think it’s for hardening the gelatine, the photograph is 70 years old. That I can read from the subtitles when the lady is visiting him. Well, I shouldn’t harden such an old gelatine. Maybe a buffer for the bleach, like phosphates.

The whole thing bears a little secret. We don’t know whether he made a safety duplicate before the chemical treatment. That could be a repro shot or a contact reflection internegative. When you know that the photograph someone brings you is all they have you don’t want to be lost with a mistake ruining the unique copy.

In 70 years not only the silver image degraded but also the gelatin in the emulsion. Remember that the inventor judges that the print had been subject to mold sometime in the past. Permanganate is known to cause softening of the emulsion. It would be prudent to harden the print emulsion before treatment. Since the bath is colorless I suspect an aldehyde perhaps glutarladehyde.

Europan · Jun 7, 2015

Interesting. You know, I am a film developer, have almost no experience with paper prints.

He did it without Photoshop!

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