HDR with Mamiya RB67?

Graham_Martin · Apr 6, 2014

Can I create an HDR type B&W image with my Mamiya RB67? I want to be able to shoot some old buildings which have a wide dynamic range. I'm thinking I could take multiple exposures on one frame instead of merging digital images as I would with a DSLR. The manual doesn't talk about this much other than the mechanics. Would I simply take the first exposure at the suggested reading and then over and under expose by one stop for the next two exposures?

I may just try it out and see what the resulting image looks like. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this.

Chris Lange · Apr 6, 2014

Black and white negative film probably has the dynamic range you're after in a single frame. I would use a film like FP4+ and over expose it a stop and develop normally.

snapguy · Apr 6, 2014

there was a guy

There was a guy who wanted to get HDR of the setting sun, the ocean and the beach all in a single photo print. It seemed to him it required three different exposures. So he set his camera up on a tripod and took three separate negatives of the whole scene on glass plates. This was, I think, 1874 or some year like that. You can do anything you want. Good luck. Sounds like fun.

AgX · Apr 6, 2014

Graham_Martin said:
Can I create an HDR type B&W image with my Mamiya RB67? I'm thinking I could take multiple exposures on one frame instead of merging digital images as I would with a DSLR.

That makes no sense at all. The idea of HDR photography is to select and isolate the best exposed parts of a series of photographs and merge them digitally into one photograph. To do this with film you either have to mask parts of the image during first or printing exposure, or cut out and paste those parts.

markbarendt · Apr 6, 2014

Chris Lange said:
Black and white negative film probably has the dynamic range you're after in a single frame. I would use a film like FP4+ and over expose it a stop and develop normally.

Tmax 400 would be another good choice.

Add a little exposure and develop normally like Chris says.

When you get to printing choose the contrast rate you prefer and then burn and dodge to to get what you want on the paper.

benjiboy · Apr 6, 2014

What's H.D.R.,is it something to do with. Hormones ?.

markbarendt · Apr 6, 2014

Hot Damn Risqué

MSchuler · Apr 6, 2014

If I'm not mistaken, the closest you could get to HDR photography (in camera) is pre-flashing of the film to get extra detail in the shadows. There is a thread here:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Graham_Martin · Apr 6, 2014

That's why I posed the question. I wanted to see if the same technique would work with film. Based on your response it sounds like it would be a waste of time.

Tom1956 · Apr 6, 2014

Remember, even with all that dynamic range you're after, print paper will never match it. You're dealing with transmission versus paper reflection. The negative wins every time.

MattKing · Apr 6, 2014

You can create composite images using multiple negatives (think special purpose cloud negatives or Jerry Uelsmann) so yes, it is possible to do some of this.

Most likely it would work best for scenes where exact registration isn't critical.

If someone is already scanning negatives anyways, one could perform multiple scans in order to emphasize shadows and highlights separately, and then use the HDR tools to combine them.

Light Guru · Apr 6, 2014

Graham_Martin said:
Can I create an HDR type B&W image with my Mamiya RB67? I want to be able to shoot some old buildings which have a wide dynamic range. I'm thinking I could take multiple exposures on one frame instead of merging digital images as I would with a DSLR. The manual doesn't talk about this much other than the mechanics. Would I simply take the first exposure at the suggested reading and then over and under expose by one stop for the next two exposures?

I may just try it out and see what the resulting image looks like. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this.

Taking multiple exposures of the exact same scene on one frame is just going to give you an over exposed image. Each exposure is just going to add onto the next.

You can however achieve a greater dynamic range with B&W film by shooting and developing using the zone system. That's where the saying "expose for the shadows develop for the highlights" comes from.

This is best done with sheet film as each exposure gets paired with a different development time hence the saying "expose for the shadows develop for the highlights"

To do this with roll film you would essentially be wasting all but one frame because you cannot develop develop each frame on the roll ad different times.

yulia_s_rey · Apr 6, 2014

Graham_Martin said:
Can I create an HDR type B&W image with my Mamiya RB67? I want to be able to shoot some old buildings which have a wide dynamic range. I'm thinking I could take multiple exposures on one frame instead of merging digital images as I would with a DSLR. The manual doesn't talk about this much other than the mechanics. Would I simply take the first exposure at the suggested reading and then over and under expose by one stop for the next two exposures?

I may just try it out and see what the resulting image looks like. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this.

A bit confused, a) are you referring to bracketing, or b) taking multiple exposures on one frame? (The first exp. with the suggested reading and then exposing +1 stop and then further yet exposing it -1 stop?) If you're trying to do "b" it won't work, it'll just be over-exposed. Hope this helps.

Xmas · Apr 6, 2014

If you need HDR then you can use POTA and a normal film like Trix or HP5+. Google POTA

POTA was developed for star spectra recovery...

You need to mix it your self or use the photographers formulary clone.

Micro scales are cheap if formulary packets are difficult to get

Chris Lange · Apr 7, 2014

He's asking if it is worth to make three consecutive exposures on three different frames and then merge the negatives after the fact in Photoshop to combine the exposure data into one photograph. A technique that can be worthwhile if done properly with digital (although I personally hate the aesthetic).

B/W film has a huge dynamic range on the negative as it is, dodging and burning in the darkroom or masking with curves and levels adjustment layers in photoshop on a solid scan of the neg will certainly be able to yield the type of image you're after. As mark said, tmax 400 is also a very good candidate for this type of work due to it's wider range compared to other black and white emulsions although to be honest I think you could achieve it with good exposure and development in a single frame without much of an issue.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 7, 2014

Have you ever experimented stand development for contrasty shots?

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Stand+development+

There's also SLIMT. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

j-dogg · Apr 7, 2014

The whole purpose of HDR is to match the dynamic range of a proper film negative, especially one as big as the RB67

Dodge and burn like the old days

Steve Smith · Apr 7, 2014

Chris Lange said:
Black and white negative film probably has the dynamic range you're after in a single frame. I would use a film like FP4+ and over expose it a stop and develop normally.

Agreed. HDR exists to try to counter the reduced dynamic range a sensor has compared with negative film.

Use any film at half its rated speed (i.e. one extra stop of exposure) and give it about 25% less development time than normal for better shadow detail.

Steve.

Ian Grant · Apr 7, 2014

As Steve says get all the tonal range on the film and there's various printing techniques to print the negative in many different ways, Split grade printing for instance, If you go down a different route then high end scanners can do 2 separate scans to enhance the dynamic range.

Ian

Xmas · Apr 7, 2014

More generally mono film is available with different dynamic ranges from microfilm very limited dynamic range to fast film very wide dynamic range.

Then you can use contrasty developers which reduce dynamic range relative to middle of the road developers or soft working developers to increase film dynamic range relative to middle of the road developers.

If you develop for a shorter time than normal you will increase dynamic range a little but may also reduce the ISO of the film.

Some people have used more exotic techniques like intermediate water baths (when developing using a safe light by inspection) or alkaline post baths.

Similar things exist for colour film but are more limited.

That gets an image on the film then you need the next step the print.

So on a sunny day normal sceane I might use HP5+ and normal developer a high dynamic range film but on a dull day panF and a normal devrloper a low dynamic range film.

The choice makes (or to make) printing easier the negatives might print nice on grade 2 paper (and scan easier).

Film has a learning curve like Photoshop (received advice), foothills looking up at Everest.

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 7, 2014

One can do multiple scans and use an HDR app like Photomatix to blend them. But you need to register all the scans which is a pain.

edcculus · Apr 7, 2014

Also, depending on your scene, you can utilize gradient ND filters over the lens to get more detail in the sky in a landscape shot. Thats probably the closest to in camera HDR for film I can think of without taking multiple exposures.

Light Guru · Apr 7, 2014

Chris Lange said:
He's asking if it is worth to make three consecutive exposures on three different frames and then merge the negatives after the fact in Photoshop to combine the exposure data into one photograph.

No Chris he specifically said he wanted to do it on one frame of film and not merge multiple images.

Graham_Martin said:
Can I create an HDR type B&W image with my Mamiya RB67? I want to be able to shoot some old buildings which have a wide dynamic range. I'm thinking I could take multiple exposures on one frame instead of merging digital images as I would with a DSLR.

Chris Lange · Apr 7, 2014

oh, my mistake...

then in that case no, that would be useless due to the additive increase of light.

HDR with Mamiya RB67?

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