HDP camera paper in daylight tank?

[RLangham]

So I have a cheapo Chinese daylight tank (vaguely a Paterson knockoff) with a reel for 2 4x5" film sheets. Can I develop Harmon Direct Positive paper in it? It would be great to be able to develop prints in the field with no intermediate steps.

 

[MattKing]

Try it.
The issue would be whether the paper would stay in place in the reel, and whether it would be damaged by contact with the reel.

 

[RLangham]

Try it.
The issue would be whether the paper would stay in place in the reel, and whether it would be damaged by contact with the reel.

I'm probably going to. I wish there was someone with the experience to tell me what to expect...

So being as this is a develop-out paper, it can bear a processing time that's a little longer than needed, right? I want a margin for error since I won't be developing by inspection.

 

[MattKing]

Are you planning on pre-flashing the paper to help control contrast?
I note that the datasheet talks about considerably extending development time in some circumstances.
Generally speaking, with prints I recommend against developing by inspection, but this may be a use that argues for it.

 

[RLangham]

Are you planning on pre-flashing the paper to help control contrast?
I note that the datasheet talks about considerably extending development time in some circumstances.
Generally speaking, with prints I recommend against developing by inspection, but this may be a use that argues for it.

I was not immediately, unless it can be done with an enlarger and a very basic timer. I certainly wasn't going to do it for every sheet since I don't shoot 4x5" very often and you have to preflash it within a few hours of using it. I want a contrasty look and I like what I've seen of non-preflashed results. I would probably only preflash if I badly needed an extra stop or so of speed.
Anyways, does Ilford have the data sheet for this paper online? I hadn't been able to find it in my brief search for it. If not I'll have it in front of me soon enough anyways.

 

[PFGS]

If, like I do, you cut down your 4x5 paper negs from 8x10 sheets, the only issue I can think of is getting the right fit, mechanically. My Nikor 4x5 reel is even pickier about exact size than my 4x5 sheet holders are.

 

[MattKing]

Anyways, does Ilford have the data sheet for this paper online? I hadn't been able to find it in my brief search for it.

Ilford doesn't, because it isn't Ilford paper.
It is Harman Direct Positive paper (note the spelling) and it is on the Harmman Technology Ilford Photo website under Products, Photographic Papers, Brands
Here is the link: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1739/product/720/
Note that it is fibre based, which may affect its usability in a film developing tank.

 

[cramej]

Processing and stop would not be the issue - the datasheet calls for 60 minutes of wash time. That would be, to say the least, difficult when not near a continuous water source.

 

[RLangham]

Processing and stop would not be the issue - the datasheet calls for 60 minutes of wash time. That would be, to say the least, difficult when not near a continuous water source.

Well, perhaps not for field use, then, but I would at least have the convenience of not having to go in my dark room, which gets up to 85 in the summer... an hour of rinsing can be done in the sink, once you dump the first few tankfulls of nasty fixer-infused water in a dump bucket to be disposed of safely.

 

[RLangham]

UPDATE: Yeah, this works pretty well. I shot two sheets of the same scene a stop apart, at ASA 3 and ASA 1.5, and developed them in the tank in a 3-1 Dektol solution for 3:30, agitating for 5 seconds out of every 30. I washed them for about ten minutes, running cool water into the open tank constantly and dumping out the tank out every minute. In future I'll wash for longer as per the data sheet, but I just wanted to see the results and wasn't worried about archival stability for these test sheets.

The one rated @ 1.5 came out very nice, the one rated at 3 came out somewhat underexposed. No midtones at all, obviously, but I like this paper. Well worth the price. I have some in a film holder right now to be developed tonight.

 

[jmoche]

I generally develop in trays in a closet with a red LED bulb. Never run into a fogging issue, and it's nice to be able to develop by inspection.

 

[RLangham]

I generally develop in trays in a closet with a red LED bulb. Never run into a fogging issue, and it's nice to be able to develop by inspection.

I live in a small house designed as a hunting lodge, and the only closet is open with a non light tight sliding partition! My dark room is a storage room that has the broken old AC unit ducts in it, and blacking it out completely was a challenge. It's pleasant only in early spring and late fall... if the heater is on in it's winter it's unbearable and if it's summer time it's dangerously hot. Basically the house was knocked together out of 2x4's and plywood in the 80's and has no insulation... you can see why I like to avoid using my darkroom this time of year!

 

[jmoche]

I live in a small house designed as a hunting lodge, and the only closet is open with a non light tight sliding partition! My dark room is a storage room that has the broken old AC unit ducts in it, and blacking it out completely was a challenge. It's pleasant only in early spring and late fall... if the heater is on in it's winter it's unbearable and if it's summer time it's dangerously hot. Basically the house was knocked together out of 2x4's and plywood in the 80's and has no insulation... you can see why I like to avoid using my darkroom this time of year!

That sounds a lot like the darkroom I used to have. I'm in Southern California, so the winters aren't bad, but summers can be brutal. My darkroom was built from particle board in the garage. I remember that my sweat would smell like fixer after a long night.

 

[RLangham]

That sounds a lot like the darkroom I used to have. I'm in Southern California, so the winters aren't bad, but summers can be brutal. My darkroom was built from particle board in the garage. I remember that my sweat would smell like fixer after a long night.

Oof... no lingering health effects, I hope? I am very suspicious of developers and fixers... I cringe a little when I remember that people used to TASTE Dektol to see if it was good.

 

[Nathan Graves Tuttle]

UPDATE: Yeah, this works pretty well. I shot two sheets of the same scene a stop apart, at ASA 3 and ASA 1.5, and developed them in the tank in a 3-1 Dektol solution for 3:30, agitating for 5 seconds out of every 30. I washed them for about ten minutes, running cool water into the open tank constantly and dumping out the tank out every minute. In future I'll wash for longer as per the data sheet, but I just wanted to see the results and wasn't worried about archival stability for these test sheets.

The one rated @ 1.5 came out very nice, the one rated at 3 came out somewhat underexposed. No midtones at all, obviously, but I like this paper. Well worth the price. I have some in a film holder right now to be developed tonight.

I had never thought of using my Patterson tank for these but it’s a good idea for field work. I’ll have to give it a go. Seems like you could use the “taco method” with loose bands and skip using the neg holders for ease and potentially more sheets of paper.
I recently starting using this paper as well, I love the punchy contrast personally but I’ve found that generally you have to sacrifice shadow detail for midtones and highlights or sacrifice blowing out highlights for good midtones and shadow detail. (I’m also usually shooting outdoors where highlights can be pretty intense.)
I shoot these at ISO 3 and usually extend my devo time up to a minute but it all comes down to preference.

 

[RLangham]

I had never thought of using my Patterson tank for these but it’s a good idea for field work. I’ll have to give it a go. Seems like you could use the “taco method” with loose bands and skip using the neg holders for ease and potentially more sheets of paper.
I recently starting using this paper as well, I love the punchy contrast personally but I’ve found that generally you have to sacrifice shadow detail for midtones and highlights or sacrifice blowing out highlights for good midtones and shadow detail. (I’m also usually shooting outdoors where highlights can be pretty intense.)
I shoot these at ISO 3 and usually extend my devo time up to a minute but it all comes down to preference.

The taco method probably wouldn't convey much of an advantage. I got the 4x5 sheets so there's no cutting and they fit perfectly in the holder. Plus my tank is different from a Paterson in this regard: the central tube is integral to whatever reel you're using, so I would have to have the 4x5" reel in or light would get in. I don't think I'd have room with the reel in there for more than two sheets, so why not use the holders on the reel?

 

[Nathan Graves Tuttle]

The taco method probably wouldn't convey much of an advantage. I got the 4x5 sheets so there's no cutting and they fit perfectly in the holder. Plus my tank is different from a Paterson in this regard: the central tube is integral to whatever reel you're using, so I would have to have the 4x5" reel in or light would get in. I don't think I'd have room with the reel in there for more than two sheets, so why not use the holders on the reel?

If it works then great, do it! I was simply thinking from the perspective of working in the field, I thought you'd mentioned that being the reason for using a tank rather than a tray. The more gear and steps you can cut out of your workflow the better as long as you get the results you want. I don't know what sort of reel you have, I've heard the rotary kind can be tricky for some, I have a separate 4x5 specific tank that I use instead of my rotary Paterson, which I love. I'll drop the link, I've found it work the price if you use 4x5 and paper negs enough.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...kQoOd6slEGiSbdpZFQORFebFVU8gL0csaAgWVEALw_wcB

 

[RLangham]

If it works then great, do it! I was simply thinking from the perspective of working in the field, I thought you'd mentioned that being the reason for using a tank rather than a tray. The more gear and steps you can cut out of your workflow the better as long as you get the results you want. I don't know what sort of reel you have, I've heard the rotary kind can be tricky for some, I have a separate 4x5 specific tank that I use instead of my rotary Paterson, which I love. I'll drop the link, I've found it work the price if you use 4x5 and paper negs enough.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488476-REG/stearman_press_445100_sp_445_4x5_developing_tank.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI:514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp4j6BRCRARIsAGq4yMELGRTDlOBfzbpw7EsKqh7kQoOd6slEGiSbdpZFQORFebFVU8gL0csaAgWVEALw_wcB

Mine works fine... it just has a very simple easy-to-load holder for 2x 4x5 or 1 x 4x10 pano, with a divider that goes between 4x5 sheets. The two sheets wrap around lengthwise around the full circumference of the reel, so I can't imagine that you could taco-style any more 4x5's in there without them bumping into the ones in the holder.

 

[Roseha]

If it works then great, do it! I was simply thinking from the perspective of working in the field, I thought you'd mentioned that being the reason for using a tank rather than a tray. The more gear and steps you can cut out of your workflow the better as long as you get the results you want. I don't know what sort of reel you have, I've heard the rotary kind can be tricky for some, I have a separate 4x5 specific tank that I use instead of my rotary Paterson, which I love. I'll drop the link, I've found it work the price if you use 4x5 and paper negs enough.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488476-REG/stearman_press_445100_sp_445_4x5_developing_tank.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI:514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp4j6BRCRARIsAGq4yMELGRTDlOBfzbpw7EsKqh7kQoOd6slEGiSbdpZFQORFebFVU8gL0csaAgWVEALw_wcB

I have bought the Stearman Press 445 as well, I'd love to see your results if you use the direct positive paper with it, I would like to try it there as well.
Thanks also OP for your report on the exposures you used.