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HC110 popularity

trythis

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Shelf life.
Very Expired film.


Typos made on a tiny phone...
 

RattyMouse

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You mean the distributor who has the rights to Kodak products in China decided to stop importing HC-110 into China, so you no longer use it.

No, I mean Kodak. The distributer tries to get gray market HC-110 but the source is not reliable, and the price is now far higher than it used to be. The last bottle of HC-110 I had here in China was marked "For sale in the US only".

Kodak simply is abandoning one of the largest markets in the world. Film is very popular here in China but Kodak wants no part of it.
 

Mainecoonmaniac

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He might seem like that now

Adams is over-rated.

With all the photographers today emulating Adams, it might seem like that now. But back in his day of Pictorialism, it was quite radical to make a photograph that didn't look like a painting.
 

bergytone

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I was going to grab a bottle of HC-110 from freestyle, mostly to develop a handful of found film in old cameras. I've heard it can limit fogging a bit. But my real question is can I assume that the 'new' HC-110 (apparently coming out of Germany) is the same as the old product? There are a couple threads here on APUG doubting it's performance.
Can anyone care to chime in and re-assure me before I go out and spend $30 on a bottle?
 

pentaxuser

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Can you give us what evidence you have found for your conclusion? It seems incredible that if film is very popular in China and given the need for Kodak to make profits it should abandon that market. Ilford hasn't abandoned the U.S. because it makes money there.

If you are right then you'd expect a statement to this effect by Kodak with reasons. Could it be that there are reasons why Kodak cannot make a profit in China?

If the market is as you say it is and profits are possible then I am driven to conclude that Kodak is now run by people who are, shall we say, educationally challenged.

This seems unlikely

pentaxuser
 

Pioneer

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I am primarily a fan of Kodak D76. I shoot a lot of film and I go through a gallon of D76 about once a month. It just works and I really have never seen a need to change.

However, I don't think there a lot of people out there who actually shoot a lot of film anymore. For them the shelf life of a gallon of D76 is not long enough. So, HC110 and Rodinal are good alternatives.

As for the "new" HC110. I have a bottle and it seems to work as well as the "old" HC110. I use the same dilutions and same developing times and film still develops as I expect it should. The negatives look good and print just fine.
 

RobC

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Its exactly the same stuff as the old formulation. However, when it was released in europe in 1/2 litre bottles, the dilution was different from the 1 litre bottles and people didn't read what it said on the bottle they bought. They assumed it required same dilution as the old stuff but it didn't.

So take care to read what it says on the bottle about dilution. The datasheets on the kodak website may be for the US produced stuff, I can't remember exactly since its been a while.
 

EASmithV

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I admit to being an HC-110 and Rodinal Fanboy.
I just like liquid devs. HC-110 for sheet film and large pushes, rodinal stand for everything else
 

kreeger

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I love HC110 but it hasn't always been that way.

I started working with HC110 in 1974. The working solution back then had a crazy smell when you mixed it up as Kodak recommended. If you followed their instructions it was way overdeveloped as I recall.

So, Tri-X and me never gave it another chance until years later when the idea of mixing it from the syrup was explained to me. That became my standard for 120 Tri-X. Today, I use it with the Dilution H method and found that it works better than any other way I did it before (Dilution B).

Somewhere along the way in the 80s the smell went away.
 

RattyMouse

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Evidence:

Shanghai has 3 stores that sell film full time as their primary product. They are *film* stores, not camera stores. I know the owners very well. They all report robust sales that are increasing year on year. They could be lying but I don't doubt them as their stores are very active and busy.

These stores *cannot* get Kodak HC-110 anymore directly from Kodak. If they can score some gray market, they will sell it. But lately they have not even been able to find any through any channel. I have purchased HC-110 from these stores in the past.

Further, in the past getting Portra film has been *very* sketchy. I havent tried lately so I dont know the current situation. However, if you look at the shelves on the stores, the space devoted to Kodak has shrunk considerably. In my favorite store, FOMA gets far more shelf space than Kodak.

Elsewhere in this photography mall are about 3 dozen if not more stores that sell nothing but used cameras. You name it, you can find it here. Any film camera you want is almost certainly here. Brisk business trading these film cameras. I doubt anyone is getting rich, but damn, it is sure fun to browse there.

Elsewhere, the lab where I get my C41 and E6 film processed says that their sales are going up very well. Turnaround time to get my film back has gone from 3 days when I first started using them up to 7 or 8 days minimum. They apologize but say that the work load simply demands longer times.

This lab also has stopped carrying some Kodak films (they sell film by mail order), due to inability to acquire stock.
 
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alanrockwood

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Very interesting.
 

MattKing

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No one can get anything directly from Kodak - other than commercial motion picture film.

Kodak Alaris only deals with intervening distributors, and it is entirely within the distributors' prerogative whether or not they import any particular product.

And they also have the ability to block others from importing any product.

Send your concerns about distribution to Kodak Alaris.

 

RattyMouse

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Nope, I dont have any concerns. I send my *money* to Ilford now, in the form of purchases of ID-11 and DD-X.

If Kodak doesnt want to be in the China market, I'm not going to argue with them.
 

Richard S. (rich815)

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Nope, I dont have any concerns. I send my *money* to Ilford now, in the form of purchases of ID-11 and DD-X.

If Kodak doesnt want to be in the China market, I'm not going to argue with them.

I think you missed Matt's point there...
 

pentaxuser

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Rattymouse, have these stores said exactly why they cannot get HC110 and is it only HC110 from the whole Kodak range they cannot get?

It still sounds strange that it is one Kodak product that cannot be obtained. Of course there might be perfectly logical reasons why this is the case for HC110 only but it is difficult to believe that the stores' owners haven't asked Kodak or its Chinese distributors the reasons and even more difficult to believe that if they asked then no reason was forthcoming.

Not doubting that your stores have a problem with HC110 but I remain sceptical that the fault lies with Kodak. It just doesn't make sense

pentaxuser
 

RattyMouse

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I think you missed Matt's point there...

You'd think that, but then you'd be wrong.

I do not care the slightest about Kodak's difficulty in supplying the Chinese market. I shop at Shanghai's largest professional camera mall. This is most likely not only Shanghai's largest photography mall but China's. I've been to Beijing's camera mall and it is smaller than the one here in SHanghai. If Kodak is unable to get their products into the market here, for whatever reason, then it's game over for them (in my eyes).

6 months or so ago I wanted to try Portra 160. Couldnt find it. Anywhere. I bought 160NS instead. My last trip to Japan I wanted to bring 20 rolls of TMAX 400 with me, because it is much cheaper in China than Japan. No stock anywhere. When my HC-110 bottle finally ran dry I tried to buy a new one. No stock anywhere, with the dealer telling me he can't get it anymore.

I pity the person who has to rely on Kodak products here in China for their professional work.
 

RattyMouse

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My film "guy" doesnt speak much english, so all I could get from him was that no more was coming because he couldnt get any stock. Why this is I dont know. I'll ask the next time I'm there with my wife or kids. As far as I know, HC-110 is the only thing declared no more stock is coming. Lots of times he runs out of Kodak films, but they eventually show up, often months later.

Understand this: Even when he did have HC-110 in stock, he had bottles labeled "For sale in USA only". Clearly he was not getting the HC-110 from Kodak or any Kodak distributer. This is all gray market stuff.
 

Gerald C Koch

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I am surprised that so few people understand economics. If there is little demand then it is natural for a supplier to discontinue a product. Nothing arcane going on.
 

pentaxuser

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I am surprised that so few people understand economics. If there is little demand then it is natural for a supplier to discontinue a product. Nothing arcane going on.

I think you are saying that if the demand for HC110 is very small compared to other Kodak products then Rattymouse's Chinese retailers or the main Chinese distributor of Kodak products may or indeed have decided not to order it. I can understand this if the cost of ordering HC110 is much greater than other Kodak products but I'd have thought that when inputting a series of Kodak products in an order it made little difference to the distributor what those products were. The cost of ordering and shipping is dependent on size, isn't it? What is in the boxes is largely immaterial. If the order is 10,000 boxes of say D76 or 9,999 boxes of D76 and one box of HC110 I wonder what difference this makes to the cost of ordering and shipping?

However it may make a big and damaging difference to consumers' perceptions of Kodak's desire to serve its consumers.

Let's assume that of the Ilford products sent to the U.S. five of them have little demand. If the U.S. distributor(s) decide it/they should discontinue those products this might seriously damage Ilford's reputation as a company and adversely affect its overall position in U.S. consumers' eyes

Would Ilford simply shrug its shoulders and accept that its U.S. distributors should decide what they order and stock?

Given the attention Ilford gives APUG and the number of "Go Ilford" sentiments expressed when it is seen to cater for consumers' desires, I somehow doubt it.

pentaxuser
 
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alanrockwood

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I am surprised that so few people understand economics. If there is little demand then it is natural for a supplier to discontinue a product. Nothing arcane going on.

Who said there is little demand?
 

Gerald C Koch

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Who said there is little demand?

Compared to the past there is little demand for photo chemistry and the demand shrinks with each year. China's new generation is obsessed with anything digital and there is little demand for products like HC-110.
 

Gerald C Koch

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You must also figure into the equation the fact that unwanted stock occupies valuable space in the distributor's warehouse. Tetenal, the manufacturer of HC-110, probably has a minimum order size. There are lots of variables to consider and simplistic models may not tell the correct story.

It must be realized that a distributor is not interested in pleasing either Kodak or the final customer. He is in business to make money.