HC-110 same as Ilfotec LC29 or not?

Devlog · Sep 29, 2014

Dear photographers,

I purchased a bottle of Ilfotec LC29 because I saw photos on the web with Neopan 400 at 1600 and LC29. My question: I already have an open bottle of HC-110 - and now I heard both developers have similar characteristics.

If this is the case, I could keep the bottle of LC29 closed and give it away again. But then again, I'm too curious and will try it in a few minutes.

Are both developers more or less the same?

Nuff · Sep 29, 2014

They are nearly identical, just LC29 is more diluted version of Ilfotec HC. Which has the same dilutions as HC110, but LC29 has different ones.
The times are identical.

dreamingartemis · Sep 29, 2014

Nuff said:
They are nearly identical, just LC29 is more diluted version of Ilfotec HC. Which has the same dilutions as HC110, but LC29 has different ones.
The times are identical.

Yeah, LC29 is the diluted version of ilford HC. Ilford HC is nearly identical to HC110.

nworth · Sep 29, 2014

HC-110 is a proprietary formula, as is Ilford HC. Although Ilford HC has been engineered to be very similar to HC-110, it is doubtful that they are identical. Over the many years of its existence, most of the formulation of HC-110 has become more or less known to the industry, but the exact formulation is still a company secret. It is very doubtful that Ilford would release an exact copy and risk the legal implications.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 29, 2014

They are similar in some respects but are not identical even when considering the difference in the strength of the concentrates. One important difference IS the presence of water in the Ilford product. This shortens the shelf life of the Ilford concentrate. Oxidation requires the presence of water to occur. This is the reason why the HC-110 concentrate contains no water. The Kodak product has a VERY long shelf life. The Ilford product has a more conventional shelf life.

It is easy to determine whether two developers are the same or similar. Just compare the two MSDS's.

Ian Grant · Sep 29, 2014

Following up Gerald's comments the two developers are similar in their action and use, but they are quite different formulations.

Ian

RattyMouse · Sep 30, 2014

nworth said:
HC-110 is a proprietary formula, as is Ilford HC. Although Ilford HC has been engineered to be very similar to HC-110, it is doubtful that they are identical. Over the many years of its existence, most of the formulation of HC-110 has become more or less known to the industry, but the exact formulation is still a company secret. It is very doubtful that Ilford would release an exact copy and risk the legal implications.

If there is no patent, copying a competitor is completely legal.

HC110 is old enough to have had all patents expire.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 30, 2014

RattyMouse said:
If there is no patent, copying a competitor is completely legal.

HC110 is old enough to have had all patents expire.

A formula cannot be patented. Only a new and novel use of a specific ingredient can be patented. Therefore the exact formulation of a developer like HC-110 or Ilfotech HC is a closely held trade secret. I believe that this distinction is made by most governments in their patent law.

Copying a developer like HC-110 requires special equipment and chemicals that are not readily available. In fact some of the ingredients were manufactured by Kodak because of their general lack of availability.

Devlog · Sep 30, 2014

Thank you very much

Your help is very much appreciated, thanks a bunch for all the responses - now I can see the differences more clearly.

cmacd123 · Oct 1, 2014

of course these days both products are apparently made side by side by by the same large German contractor. who ironically is probably the only one to know the exact differences, and is not allowed to say.

Nuff · Oct 1, 2014

cmacd123 said:
of course these days both products are apparently made side by side by by the same large German contractor. who ironically is probably the only one to know the exact differences, and is not allowed to say.

Do you mean Tetanal? They also have their own version of HC110.

WD4AON · May 28, 2022

nworth said:
HC-110 is a proprietary formula, as is Ilford HC. Although Ilford HC has been engineered to be very similar to HC-110, it is doubtful that they are identical. Over the many years of its existence, most of the formulation of HC-110 has become more or less known to the industry, but the exact formulation is still a company secret. It is very doubtful that Ilford would release an exact copy and risk the legal implications.

What legal implications? Any patents have now expired. --Terry

WD4AON · May 28, 2022

Gerald C Koch said:
A formula cannot be patented. Only a new and novel use of a specific ingredient can be patented. Therefore the exact formulation of a developer like HC-110 or Ilfotech HC is a closely held trade secret. I believe that this distinction is made by most governments in their patent law.

Copying a developer like HC-110 requires special equipment and chemicals that are not readily available. In fact some of the ingredients were manufactured by Kodak because of their general lack of availability.

While the 'formula' may not be patented, the PRODUCT produced according to the recipe is patentable, provided it is new, useful, and unobvious (US patent rules).

HC-110 same as Ilfotec LC29 or not?

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