HC-110 life expectancy aka ye olde chemistre

Jersey Vic · Aug 2, 2005

I inherited a few bottles of HC-110 with a 2/2005 expiration date from a lab going the 'D-word' route a few miles from here and am wondering if it's still top shelf from those who've had a similar dilemna. The only thing that looks even slightly askew is a slight brown discoloring of the bottle at the 'developer line'.
While I'm here-I also have some packets of "Kodak Fixer -A General Purpose Hardening Fix for Films PLATES and Papers" CAT 197 1746...Still good?

Thanks in advance-
Victor

Lee L · Aug 2, 2005

Victor,

It's likely still good. Give it a test run. See http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ for a good, comprehensive write-up on HC-110 and its use.

Lee

jim appleyard · Aug 2, 2005

I'm now using up a free bottle of HC-110 that a friend gave me. I have no idea how old it is (decades???), but it too has the "developer line". The stuff works just fine!

As always, it's still a good idea to try a test-roll.

Gerald Koch · Aug 2, 2005

When you open the HC-110 it's best to transfer the contents in to smaller (say 4 ounce) glass bottles. Once you do this the syrup will last practically forever. You can buy glass bottles from most pharmacies.

gainer · Aug 3, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
When you open the HC-110 it's best to transfer the contents in to smaller (say 4 ounce) glass bottles. Once you do this the syrup will last practically forever. You can buy glass bottles from most pharmacies.

The syrup will last practically forever even if you leave the lid off a partly filled bottle.

Ronald Moravec · Aug 3, 2005

I tried some I had two years and was in the expiration month. Had never been opened and stored in the dark. It did NOT work.

Had some I was using that I broke down into 4 oz glass bottles and it was was way out of date. Worked fine the week before.

I have read it is known to die suddenly.

fschifano · Aug 3, 2005

The HC-110 may or may not be good. What the heck? It was free so it's worth a roll of film ot find out. The fixer will almost certainly be good.

Gerald Koch · Aug 3, 2005

gainer said:
The syrup will last practically forever even if you leave the lid off a partly filled bottle.

Decanting the contents of the plastic bottle into several smaller glass bottles is recommended by the unofficial HC-110 resource site. http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Have you tested your assertion concerning lidless bottles of HC-110? As a chemist I find the statement troublesome.

gainer · Aug 3, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
Decanting the contents of the plastic bottle into several smaller glass bottles is recommended by the unofficial HC-110 resource site. http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Have you tested your assertion concerning lidless bottles of HC-110? As a chemist I find the statement troublesome.

Here is an experiment you can do that I have done, and reported in Photo Techniques. Look for the article "New Developments." I don't remember what issue. Put a drop of HC-110 syrup on a piece of film in roomlight. See how long it takes to blacken the film. When you get tired of waiting, put a drop of water on the drop of syrup. You will see that without water, HC-110 is nearly inactive. Eventually, of course, it will take up enough water from the atmosphere to become active. If the HC-110 will not blacken film, it is not an oxidizing agent.

I'm not recommending storage in lidless bottles. However, it is not the air that we must protect against, but the water in the air. Without water, the organic solvents of HC-110 do not ionize the active ingredients.

Gerald Koch · Aug 3, 2005

I never mentioned oxidation of the developer. This is only one consideration. There is also absorption of water and carbon dioxide from the air among other things.

Ole · Aug 3, 2005

gainer said:
... If the HC-110 will not blacken film, it is not an oxidizing agent. ...

That's good to know, since most developers are reducing agents

gainer · Aug 3, 2005

Ole said:
That's good to know, since most developers are reducing agents

So now you know I'm 78 years old. Of course I should have said HC-110 will not BE oxidized without ionization of its reducing agents. And that is just a theory that I think I tested. I won't go so far as a teacher of mine did when he said "I could be wrong. After all, there's a first time for everything." I've already had my first time...and second, and third.

gainer · Aug 3, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
I never mentioned oxidation of the developer. This is only one consideration. There is also absorption of water and carbon dioxide from the air among other things.

I suppose one could calculate from the components of HC-110 and the volume of airspace in the bottle how many exchanges of that air it would take to change the characteristics of the syrup. The partial pressure of CO2 is usually reckoned at 4 mm of mercury on average out of 760. Water vapor can be estimated from an air conditioning chart for any given relative humidity. Without the absorbed water, I doubt there will be a lot of effect of absorbed CO2. Should not my simple experiment with a drop of HC-110 on exposed film show if the things absorbed from the air are a problem? Of course, if adding the bit of water did not cause the film to blacken quickly, it might be concluded that stuff from the air deactivated the HC-110, but that is not what happened.

Another consideration is that it has been said that the formula of HC-110 has changed over the years. Catechol is supposed to have been used in place of hydroquinone at times.

Gerald Koch · Aug 3, 2005

gainer said:
Should not my simple experiment with a drop of HC-110 on exposed film show if the things absorbed from the air are a problem?

Catechol is supposed to have been used in place of hydroquinone at times.

One cannot make conclusions from negative results. Failure to produce a darkened spot could mean that the developer is fine and has not adsorbed any water or it could mean that it is completely degraded. In the case where the developer produced a spot is it still active enough to develop film without extending the development time?

I've heard this too. At one time HC-110 Replenisher contained catechol as it was listed on the label. Concerning the developer itself in pre-MSDS times we have no way of knowing as Kodak has no comment on this.

gainer · Aug 3, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
One cannot make conclusions from negative results. Failure to produce a darkened spot could mean that the developer is fine and has not adsorbed any water or it could mean that it is completely degraded. In the case where the developer produced a spot is it still active enough to develop film without extending the development time?

I've heard this too. At one time HC-110 Replenisher contained catechol as it was listed on the label. Concerning the developer itself in pre-MSDS times we have no way of knowing as Kodak has no comment on this.

You didn't read the whole thing. Myoriginal simple experiment covered the possibility that the HC-110 was no good from the start by making sure that it was activated by water after having been inactive for a period of time.

I have since concocted many stock solutions of different types that are stored in organic solvents, particularly propylene or ethylene glycols, glycerine, and triethanolamine. I tested one of these by leaving a sample of the stock solution in a thin layer about 100 mm in diameter exposed to air for 30 days. It was till active at the end of that period. Others who read these posts will attest to their long storage lives.

Again, I say, I am not recommending storing any developer, stock or other, exposed to moving or changing air. In fact, considering how easy it is to make the stock solutions of a wide variety of organic stock solutions, I am not even recommending that anyone buy HC-110.

Jersey Vic · Aug 3, 2005

My thanks to everyone for all of your assistance; I just tested a bottle on some Holgafied Delta3200 and it worked great.
All my best
Victor

HC-110 life expectancy aka ye olde chemistre

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