HC-110, Jobo speeds and development times

I have been trying to get control over highlights for a while now. They are always a little too dense. My main film is FP4 in 4x5 and I develop in a Jobo CPE-2 with HC-110.

I finally did the tests outlined in "Way Beyond Monochrome." I used my old development time as a starting point, with a little correction: HC-110 at dilution E for 6 minutes. I can't get much a much lower time than that in my Jobo, so I also used dilution F, and developed 6 sheets as follows:

dilution F - 6 minutes
dilution F - 8 minutes
dilution E - 6 minutes
dilution E - 8 minutes
dilution E - 10 minutes

This was just a starting point.

dil F at 8 minutes was pretty close to N (just a tad high) with an EI of 64.

dil E at 6 minutes was almost N+1, higher than I thought it would be, based on previous experience, but it had an EI of 64.

Here is the problem. If N is dil F at 8 minutes, I can only develop one sheet at a time in my Jobo because I use 4 ml per sheet of 4x5. Dilution F is 1:79 which would work out to 4 ml + 316 ml, or 320 ml. Two sheets would therefore be 640 ml which is too much for my tank.

I am using the higher agitation speed. Would I be able to get more development time if I used the lower speed, or would that give me uneven development problems? I have a CPE-2.

I welcome any comments or thoughts on this.

I haven't anything to offer you in the way of info yet - just bought a CPA machine and it's supposed to be here tomorrow.

I'll be developing 8X10 sheet, both B&W and color (C-41) and will share experiences whenever I get started.

take a peak at this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
it might help you. (i hope)

Tom

My main 4x5 film is FP4+ as well, plus I also use the early model CPE2 with the two speed setting. I develop all film, whatever it is, be it B&W, C41, E6 or B&W reversal at the slow setting. I load the developer in on the high speed setting and after 15 seconds switch to the low speed setting, been doing it that way since about 1987, which is when I bought the CPE2, with lift.

I only do 4 sheets at a time and have never had a problem with unevenness of development. The one and only time developing 4x5 film where I had evenness problems, was when I loaded 6 sheets instead of four to the 2509 reel.

I haven't used HC110 for over 20 years so I cannot comment on that developer.

Mick.

I love HC-110 but have found it to be mostly unsuitable for use in the Jobo. It seems like HC-110 builds contrast too fast when agitated continuously. I have a CPE_2 and before I got it, I always used HC-110, dil D (1+39) one sheet at a time in my Patterson tank. Now, I tend to use D-23 or Konica SD-28 (a variation on D-76) in the Jobo....but, as with everything, YMMV.

Don Wallace said:

I use 4 ml per sheet of 4x5. Dilution F is 1:79 which would work out to 4 ml + 316 ml, or 320 ml. Two sheets would therefore be 640 ml which is too much for my tank.

Click to expand...

Don,
I feel you are unnecessarily constraining yourself with arithmetic. Rather than demanding 4 ml HC110 per sheet, why not mix for the tank volume at the best dilution and use 2 sheets? The tank is designed to hold multiple sheets and your careful experimentation could just as easily be made with various dilutions incorporating the number of sheets you wish to develop at once.

Those of us who cut our teeth on tray development mixed a big batch at dilution b, or whatever, and dunked a deck of negatives, or two, or three, until we felt the developer was exhausted, then mixed some more. I doubt anyone knew in advance how many they sheets they would develop, then multiplied by 4ml per sheet and by the dilution, then made up an exact 3.14159265 L. of developer.

Now that I use drum development, the procedure is the same: mix a volume of dil b, pour in the required amount for each drum, go to it; repeat.

Enjoy.

...ditto what BradS said..

Deckled Edge said:

Don,
I feel you are unnecessarily constraining yourself with arithmetic. .. etc.

Now that I use drum development, the procedure is the same: mix a volume of dil b, pour in the required amount for each drum, go to it; repeat.

Enjoy.

Click to expand...

Deckled Edge said:

Don,
I feel you are unnecessarily constraining yourself with arithmetic. etc.

Click to expand...

I hear what your saying, but I promise you it is not arithmetic for the sake of it. There are limits to all of this, and one limit for sure is the minimum amount of developer per sheet/roll. After a bit of research, I settled on 4ml per sheet. It could be less (although probably not much), but that is the conclusion to which I came, and I am open to other suggestions. 3ml has often been suggested but I have not yet tried it.

As for just mixing up dilution B, I have never been able to get control over the highlights with dilution B in the Jobo. The times would be well under 5 minutes, which is not recommended. Mind you, I have never tried the lower speed and that may be what I have to do next.

Mick Fagan said:

My main 4x5 film is FP4+ as well, plus I also use the early model CPE2 with the two speed setting. I develop all film, whatever it is, be it B&W, C41, E6 or B&W reversal at the slow setting. I load the developer in on the high speed setting and after 15 seconds switch to the low speed setting, been doing it that way since about 1987, which is when I bought the CPE2, with lift.

Click to expand...

Mick, I am going to redo the tests asap with the lower speed. Any idea of what a starting time might be, i.e., how much does the lower speed extend the development time? Anyone?

Don Wallace said:

Mick, I am going to redo the tests asap with the lower speed. Any idea of what a starting time might be, i.e., how much does the lower speed extend the development time? Anyone?

Click to expand...

I don't think the slower speed extends development time to any appreciable degree.

Firstly, my developer of choice is D76 @ 1+1

Secondly, I don't think the rotation rate on the CPE2 will make that much difference, although there should be a measurable difference, but I don't have anything to measure it with.

The two speeds on the CPE2 were, as I understand, designed to give the same relative speed for the two sized tanks the unit is capable of handling. In other words the 1500 series of tanks rotate at the faster speed and the larger diameter 2800 series rotate at the slower speed. The relative outer speed of each tank, should then be about the same.

The handbook I have, doesn't mention speed anywhere in the book, that is just my assumption. That said, I have always developed at the slow speed for all films, whether in the 1500 or 2800 tanks. When I developed paper in the 2800 tanks I always used the fast speed.

Having developed C41, E6, B&W reversal and all manner of B&W film and developer combinations in the two sizes of tanks the unit can handle, I have never had evenness problems with the slower speed, except as mentioned previously.

I would suggest that you mix the amount of developer required to cover the film, plus a safety margin, eg:- 270ml required, use 300ml, then just develop your films.

One of the reasons I don't like HC-110 is the extremely small amount of concentrate required. The smaller the concentrate required, the easier it is to get slight differences. If you are over or under .5 of a ml in your 4ml measurement, then you can be out 12.5% in concentrate, that is a substantial and presumably measurable on the film difference.

Mick.