HC-110 Developing Times

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

So I have a bottle of HC-110 now from this weekend. I developed a roll of Acros with it (dil. B) and that went just fine. In the queue now is a roll of Tri-X and I find the listed times for development all over the place. Kodak's guidlines are under 5 mins! How can that be when they recommend longer times than 5 mins for ALL films? Even Ilford's HP5 time is right on 5 mins.

Should I be using something other than dilution B? It always seems to me that dil. B is the one used with HC-110 so I am not sure how to develop my roll of Tri-X tonight.

Even the massive development chart is of no help, with Tri-X's times being listed as a range!

As always, thanks!

Gerald C Koch · Mar 3, 2014

The following site has lots of information about HC-110 http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
The following site has lots of information about HC-110 http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

I saw that site during my pre-post searches. For Tri-X it is not very definitive. "Most photographers recommend about 6 to 7 minutes. "

I was hoping for a more firm answer than that.

David Brown · Mar 3, 2014

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf

Shows 7 1/2 minutes for TriX at 68F/20C ...

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 3, 2014

At ASA 100, according to the Massive Dev Chart try 5 1/2 minutes dilution B. It's too flat for me. I print with a diffusion head though.

cjbecker · Mar 3, 2014

7:30 was my time for normal lighting.

pentaxuser · Mar 3, 2014

Rattymouse, can I ask what you think you should do to develop Tri-X if you feel that a question mark hangs over using HC110

Fred Picker was a big fan of HC110 and Tri-X but of course he says to do a test to establish your own film speed and processing time. As he makes no mention of the likelihood of problems of times below 5 mins maybe he felt that such times were unlikely after testing but I don't know.

It would seem from other posts that times are mostly above 5 mins.

If I were you I'd believe I had 3 options:

Do a test for film speed and processing times with HC110 and Tri-X

Pick one of the times you and others have mentioned or pick an average

Use another developer where the times for Tri-X are more consistent and longer than 5 mins

Best of luck and tell us what you choose to do and your findings after your choice

pentaxuser

MattKing · Mar 3, 2014

David Brown said:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf

Shows 7 1/2 minutes for TriX at 68F/20C ...

I think that is for the old Tri-X.

This is the data-sheet for the current film - Kodak Professional Tri-X 400 - which lists 3 3/4 minutes at 20C: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

With the Kodak data sheets it is best to go to the film data sheet for times, because they seem to be updated more frequently then the developer data sheets.

You can use the shorter than 5 minute times, but they are much more exacting with respect to your technique.

You might consider instead the unofficial 1 + 49 dilution, which is very similar to dilution E. Jason Brunner has an excellent APUG article on that dilution (and I use it in a replenishment regime with the instructions for replenishing dilution E): (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

ntenny · Mar 3, 2014

I use 7:00 in dilution B for TX at box speed. The covingtoninnovations.com page makes the speculation that Kodak simply printed the time for the wrong dilution; the numbers do seem about right for that, but heaven only knows why they haven't corrected it if it's that simple.

As always, if in doubt, do some tests.

-NT

37th Exposure · Mar 3, 2014

The beauty of HC 110 are the dilution options

RattyMouse said:
So I have a bottle of HC-110 now from this weekend. I developed a roll of Acros with it (dil. B) and that went just fine. In the queue now is a roll of Tri-X and I find the listed times for development all over the place. Kodak's guidlines are under 5 mins! How can that be when they recommend longer times than 5 mins for ALL films? Even Ilford's HP5 time is right on 5 mins.

Should I be using something other than dilution B? It always seems to me that dil. B is the one used with HC-110 so I am not sure how to develop my roll of Tri-X tonight.

Even the massive development chart is of no help, with Tri-X's times being listed as a range!

As always, thanks!

Common alternate dilutions for longer developing times or contrast control are Dilution E or the unofficial Dilution H(1+64 or 1+62 depending on who you ask). HC-110 is just like Rodinal, you can play with the dilutions to match your requirements. If you must use the textbook Dilution B, try presoaking in plain water for 2 minutes with agitation before pouring in the developer. This should prevent uneven development for short development times. Use at least 6.25ml of HC syrup per 135-36 roll (some claim half that is sufficient. I have gone as low as 5 ml with no problems). And as always try it out first. You should do your Tri-X in your trusted developer if it contains anything important. I do Tri-X at 10 minutes at 1+50, 2 minute presoak.

adelorenzo · Mar 3, 2014

I used an article on this site, (there was a url link here which no longer exists), as my starting point for Tri-X in HC-110. I settled on metering at ISO 320, developing in a 1:49 dilution for 8 minutes in an inversion tank. As others have said, you'll need to fine tune your process but this article is a great starting point.

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks everyone. I have to say, I am quite disappointed with Kodak. HC-110 is a very common developer and Tri-X is one of their core films! How can they not have accurate information to develop this film??!!

Guess which film I wont be buying any more of? I was converting over to HP5 anyway. I'm just working off my last bit of Tri-X, but still this would have pushed me out on its own anyway.

MattKing · Mar 3, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Thanks everyone. I have to say, I am quite disappointed with Kodak. HC-110 is a very common developer and Tri-X is one of their core films! How can they not have accurate information to develop this film??!!

Guess which film I wont be buying any more of? I was converting over to HP5 anyway. I'm just working off my last bit of Tri-X, but still this would have pushed me out on its own anyway.

The developing recommendation from Kodak gives an ISO consistent result that does actually work well. It is just that it gives a result that not everyone likes.

Tri-X (and HP5+) are tremendously flexible films. That is one reason why you will see such a variation in preferred development times.

The Kodak recommended time really minimizes grain. Many people prefer more mid-tone and highlight contrast, and are willing to accept the grain increase that comes with them.

HC-110 B was designed for mechanized processing. It works quite quickly with a lot of films, and is therefore more difficult to use with small tank processing for those films. In most cases, the solution is to use a different dilution.

adelorenzo · Mar 3, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Thanks everyone. I have to say, I am quite disappointed with Kodak. HC-110 is a very common developer and Tri-X is one of their core films! How can they not have accurate information to develop this film??!!

Guess which film I wont be buying any more of? I was converting over to HP5 anyway. I'm just working off my last bit of Tri-X, but still this would have pushed me out on its own anyway.

Ummm... Did you try looking at the Kodak datasheet for Tri-X? Small tank, 20 degrees, 5.5 minutes at dilution B. That is the "accurate information" you are looking for, straight from the source. Not to mention times for every other Kodak developer.

Like Matt said the film has a lot of flexibility, people find different processes that work for them and that's why you see so much information posted on the internet. If you're not planning to use the film enough to find your own preference then just stick with the Kodak information.

MattKing · Mar 3, 2014

adelorenzo said:
Ummm... Did you try looking at the Kodak datasheet for Tri-X? Small tank, 20 degrees, 5.5 minutes at dilution B. That is the "accurate information" you are looking for, straight from the source. Not to mention times for every other Kodak developer.

Like Matt said the film has a lot of flexibility, people find different processes that work for them and that's why you see so much information posted on the internet. If you're not planning to use the film enough to find your own preference then just stick with the Kodak information.

That is the old datasheet, for the older version of Tri-X.

The current (since 2003) version recommends 20 degrees, 3 3/4 minutes - it is the one I linked to before: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

I am assuming that the OP isn't using film that is more than ten years old.

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

adelorenzo said:
Ummm... Did you try looking at the Kodak datasheet for Tri-X? Small tank, 20 degrees, 5.5 minutes at dilution B. That is the "accurate information" you are looking for, straight from the source. Not to mention times for every other Kodak developer.

Like Matt said the film has a lot of flexibility, people find different processes that work for them and that's why you see so much information posted on the internet. If you're not planning to use the film enough to find your own preference then just stick with the Kodak information.

Your data is obsolete so I did not consider using it.

The new publication is the one that is problematic.

ntenny · Mar 3, 2014

MattKing said:
The developing recommendation from Kodak gives an ISO consistent result that does actually work well. It is just that it gives a result that not everyone likes.

You're talking about the 3:45 time? It would surprise me greatly if it were consistent at that short a time, but I've never tried it since it seemed impractically short.

-NT

DWThomas · Mar 3, 2014

I admit to not shooting a lot of 400TX, but when I do I meter at 250 and develop about 9:00 in HC110 1+63. I definitely steer away from combinations requiring times less than 5 or 6 minutes.

Fixcinater · Mar 3, 2014

I use the easy HC110: 1+49, or a minimum of 5ml per roll. 8 minutes with minimal agitation throughout and get negs that are likely a bit flat for most people's tastes, but I'd prefer to preserve highlights than blow them.

adelorenzo · Mar 4, 2014

That does seem a bit weird. I've been using the same development times for the older TXP 320 and the new 400TX.

K-G · Mar 4, 2014

adelorenzo said:
I used an article on this site, (there was a url link here which no longer exists), as my starting point for Tri-X in HC-110. I settled on metering at ISO 320, developing in a 1:49 dilution for 8 minutes in an inversion tank. As others have said, you'll need to fine tune your process but this article is a great starting point.

I agree with using the 1+49 dilution. As mentioned, the article hc110 made simple by J Brunner is very helpfull and when I developed HP5+ according to these recommendations the results turned out to be excelent.

Karl-Gustaf

RattyMouse · Mar 4, 2014

Well, I developed the roll of Tri-X w/HC-110 using dilution B @ 20C for 6 mins as per the massive development chart. 6 minutes was the high end of their range so i went with that. The negatives came out nice and thick. If there is any problem, the darks might be too dark, but I cant judge that at all by eye. I'll have to wait until next week when the scans come back.

ann · Mar 4, 2014

Several years ago when they (Kodak) move the factory and some what tweak trix the times changed and created a stir at the time.
Some one talked with a rep from Kodak and told me they said there had been a typo , but at this time it has not been corrected.

Basically everyone i know and talked with at the time used their old times.

I have tested for my development times which is 6 minutes with solution b and recommend that time for my students as 7 minutes is too much in our lab and with our equipment.

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