Hblad questions

puketronic said:

I'm fancying a medium format SLR but I have some questions. I'm mostly leaning towards hasselblad 500cm:

-Mechanical Shutter

-Hold it's value because it is digital-forward
-Small-ish.

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Mechanical shutters are not as accurate as electronic shutters and require maintenance. Given the latitude of C-41 film and to a lesser degree B&W film it may not make a difference. But electronic shutters such as those in the Rollei 6000 can be set in 1/3 stops. Plus electronic shutters are accurate across the spectrum from 1/1000 of a second to 30 seconds.

If you buy a good used MF camera at this stage none of them are going to drop in value by 50% any time soon. If a camera is worthwhile and its price was going to drop it has done it by now. That has nothing to do with being "digital-forward." If you ever look at digital backs you will realize the price of the camera body is nothing compared to the price of decent medium format back.

Hasselblads are no smaller than any other 6x6 camera.

puketronic said:

Oh and I plan on using a tripod so mirror shake isn't that much of a concern.

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Mirror shake has nothing to do with using a tripod. They are for the most part two separate concerns. You will need a good solid tripod. A cheapy plastic one bought at a local consumer electronics store will not cut it. Depending on the dampening in your camera and what shutter speed you will shoot at mirror lock up can be vital. If your camera has substantial mirror slap a tripod won't cure that.

puketronic said:

1. I like Square but sometimes I like rectangle; however I do not like cropping because I print full-frame. There is a 645 back, I see some on keh.com for reasonable prices.
-Can these rotate? I assume not.
-Is there a mask for the viewfinder? Or do you just visualize the 645?
645 isn't that big of a deal but it would add to the versatility. If I like 645 so much then I'd just get a 645 camera.

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Don't know about Hassies, but my 6008i came with a rotatable 645 back. I believe there are other systems out there with similar capabilities. I think your main problem is you picked a system and are now trying to make it work for you. I would first figure out what I need and then pick a system. As I pointed out three of the things you listed are irrelevant. The one thing you did spend a lot of time discussing is something that is solved very easily by a Rollei 6008i. I was very patient and basically ended up getting a sophisticated 645 magazine for the same price as a 120 magazine. The beauty of that magazine is it shoots 120 and 220. So I often load a 120 magazine with B&W film and shoot it square and load the 645 magazine with Portra 220 film and shoot it rectangular. People really like to charge a lot for the Rollei 645 rotatable magazine. I wouldn't pay too much more for it than a regular 120 magazine.

Anyway Hassies are great cameras but they aren't necessarily for everyone. No camera system is the best in all categories. If you like all kinds of weird niche accessories then Hassies are unbeatable. Some truly innovative stuff came out for the Rollei 6000 series which makes a lot of Hassy stuff look poor... good luck finding it all at a reasonable price in a timely fashion. In photography world you cannot have you cake and eat it too. Figure out the compromises you are willing to live with and then go and shoot.

bdial said:

The only real advantage of the 645 back is that it gives you 16 exposures, aside from that, as stated, if you want to compose for a rectangle you can perfectly well do it in the 6x6 frame.

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That's pretty much the final conclusion. If you aren't into saving money and reducing the number of roll changes in the field just shoot square. Also if you can't find a good 645 back that works for you at a reasonable price don't bother. I saw the magazine I eventually got for sale at multiple places... people wanted almost $500 (used)! I was fortunate. Otherwise I would just be shooting square and dealing with it.

Hasselblads are no smaller than any other 6x6 camera

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I want to disagree here! The classic V-body is definitely much smaller than my SL66 or a Rollei 6000. Smaller than a Mamiya TLR too I think. They are as compact as a Rollei TLR. Only Bronica 6x6 should be of the same size.

Slixtiesix said:

I want to disagree here! The classic V-body is definitely much smaller than my SL66 or a Rollei 6000. Smaller than a Mamiya TLR too I think. They are as compact as a Rollei TLR. Only Bronica 6x6 should be of the same size.

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This is definitely true of the stripped down models. puketronic mentioned prisms, 645 backs, digital backs, and the wide array of accessories. If you kit out a Hasselblad to mimic much of the standard built in functions of a Rollei 6008i you end up with a frankencamera that is no where near as elegant nor capable as a Rollei 6008i.

I cut my teeth on a Bronica ETRS. I ended up getting the Rollei 6008i because it had so much stuff already built in and well integrated. Yes, when I got it I initially felt regret because of the size and weight of the camera. But I soon got used to it and really loved the fact I had an integrated piece of equipment that did it all.

I normally detest "showrooming." I feel if you are going to go in and waste a salesman's time looking at a camera you should buy it from them, but in this case I will make an exception. If someone is thinking of buying either system they should go somewhere where they can physically handle both cameras. But even that is tricky because it took a while for me to appreciate the Rollei 6008i.

Anyway puketronic and anyone else considering a system has to figure out their long term goals first. Then they have to figure out which issues really matter. If all puketronic wants is an SLR with a waste level finder and a 120 back then a Hassy is a fine choice. But for me the tipping point came once I started looking for a certain degree of versatility and convenience. And having interchangable lenses and back is not "versatility" in my opinion. That is what I would call the bare minimum.

I figured out my desires after shooting for years with an ETRS and doing a lot of research. I just think with some of the comments regarding mechanical shutters and mirror lock up indicate more research is necessary.

Noble said:

Anyway puketronic and anyone else considering a system has to figure out their long term goals first. Then they have to figure out which issues really matter. If all puketronic wants is an SLR with a waste level finder and a 120 back then a Hassy is a fine choice.

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Technical correction: The Rollei 6008i has a waste level viewfinder. Hasselblad has a waist level finder.

I do not have the Rollei Puketronics packages on my Hasselblad, just the lens(es), viewfinder, and film back. In fact I do not have any electronic devices on my camera other than a light meter.

By the way does a barff bag come with the Rollei 6008i Puketronic?

We live in an age where film cameras are being made a mere fraction of the amounts made just 15-20 years ago, so used is a good bet...used and easy to find replacements or get repaired is a *great* bet.

I did a search on ebay for both "Rollei 6008" and "Hasselblad", the latter being a fully usable system across a broad variety of models, not sure about the Rollei stuff.

The results are 91 for Rollei 6008 and 7,100 for Hasselblad....kind of all you need to know...right?

I use a 501CM with a 500CM as a backup or second...I have never needed it as a backup. If not using them with a waist level finder, a clean NC-2 does the trick and really does not add all that much bulk and weight. I own and use mint CF versions of the 50mm FLE, 60mm, 80mm, 100mm, 180mm and will take delivery tomorrow of a mint 1.4XE converter to make my 180 into a sharp 250mm 5.6. I also use three extension tubes, Proxar #1, dedicated shades, 6093T shade, one A-24 back and 8 A-12 backs, prefer the square format and will backup a tad for a shot I expect to crop to 8x10 format.

In using and printing from black and white negatives in 35mm, 120mm and 4x5, the Hasselblad V system is by *far* the most versatile, compact, trouble free, professional and productive camera system I have ever used. I type this as a beautiful 30"x30" print hangs on the wall next to me..I really want for nothing more...

PKM-25 said:

We live in an age where film cameras are being made a mere fraction of the amounts made just 15-20 years ago, so used is a good bet...used and easy to find replacements or get repaired is a *great* bet.

I did a search on ebay for both "Rollei 6008" and "Hasselblad", the latter being a fully usable system across a broad variety of models, not sure about the Rollei stuff.

The results are 91 for Rollei 6008 and 7,100 for Hasselblad....kind of all you need to know...right?

I use a 501CM with a 500CM as a backup or second...I have never needed it as a backup. If not using them with a waist level finder, a clean NC-2 does the trick and really does not add all that much bulk and weight. I own and use mint CF versions of the 50mm FLE, 60mm, 80mm, 100mm, 180mm and will take delivery tomorrow of a mint 1.4XE converter to make my 180 into a sharp 250mm 5.6. I also use three extension tubes, Proxar #1, dedicated shades, 6093T shade, one A-24 back and 8 A-12 backs, prefer the square format and will backup a tad for a shot I expect to crop to 8x10 format.

In using and printing from black and white negatives in 35mm, 120mm and 4x5, the Hasselblad V system is by *far* the most versatile, compact, trouble free, professional and productive camera system I have ever used. I type this as a beautiful 30"x30" print hangs on the wall next to me..I really want for nothing more...

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Hasselblad is my go to camera for serious work. I have a Hasselblad 503 CX with a PME 45° prism, 50mm CF, 80mm CF, 150mm CF and 250mm CF lenses. I also have a Hasselblad 903 SWC.
I have several 35mm cameras including two Nikons, one for color and one for black & white. I also have a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic and 4"x5" Graflex Model D.


No names please but someone has a serious case of Hasselblad envy.

Noble said:

Don't know about Hassies, but my 6008i came with a rotatable 645 back.

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Hasselblads don't need no stinkin' rotatable back! Shoot 6x6 and crop if necessary.

Rotating backs are for wimps. It takes true skill to shoot a vertical with a 645 back and a WLF hand held, doing it with a 45 degree prism is even better.

Sirius Glass said:

Technical correction: The Rollei 6008i has a waste level viewfinder. Hasselblad has a waist level finder.

I do not have the Rollei Puketronics packages on my Hasselblad, just the lens(es), viewfinder, and film back. In fact I do not have any electronic devices on my camera other than a light meter.

By the way does a barff bag come with the Rollei 6008i Puketronic?

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"puketronic" is the forum name of the person who started this thread. I was tailoring my remarks for his specific stated needs. I skipped your other remarks because I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed they were fueled by this misunderstanding.

PKM-25 said:

We live in an age where film cameras are being made a mere fraction of the amounts made just 15-20 years ago, so used is a good bet...used and easy to find replacements or get repaired is a *great* bet.

I did a search on ebay for both "Rollei 6008" and "Hasselblad", the latter being a fully usable system across a broad variety of models, not sure about the Rollei stuff.

The results are 91 for Rollei 6008 and 7,100 for Hasselblad....kind of all you need to know...right?

I use a 501CM with a 500CM as a backup or second...I have never needed it as a backup.

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Well the "Rollei 6008" will only bring up camera bodies and accessories for about three common modern iterations of Rollei SLRs where as Hasselblad will bring up a bunch of stuff including digital cameras covering a much larger time span. Also even within a certain time span Hasselblad sold many things as accessories that came either built into the various 6008s or were commonly sold included in kits. So no motor winders or metering prisms.

I understand where you are coming from though on the spare or replacement parts thing. Fortunately for me all I need to do is pick up an extra body and some spare backs when they become available. I only need one extra body. And as you yourself stated you never needed a backup camera even though you acquired one. I am not a professional. It will take decades for me to approach the limits of my equipment through normal use.

You do raise a good point. I did not do a full Hasselblad vs "whatever." It is up to puketronics to take the information presented in this thread and do his own research. I would never say anyone made a horrible mistake getting a Hasselblad. And certainly not in comparison to a Rollei SLR. The glass is the same. For the most part they take identical pictures. Anyway everyone has their own risk tolerance and if taking a chance on the smaller pool of Rollei bodies is unacceptable to someone that is their choice. I can neither condone or condemn it. There is no right answer. I just saw some information that puketronics had that I think was a little incorrect. The 645 thing struck a cord with me because the device to cure that particular issue was invented long ago and you can use it with the same Zeiss glass.

I want to buy Hasselblad 500CM chrome body with WLF only, i don't want the back and the lens, i have 501CM but i want a backup and i bought a chrome back and it is not so great look with my black body of 501CM.

I am not so happy with my film Hasselblad because of focusing screen, my digi Hassy is way better and different, but i love the handle of my Hassy 501CM over all other bodies of film cameras even rangefinder and Holga and LF.

To all those here who eschew the electronic Rolleis: This spot proves that they are in fact very seductive ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KifjdV1h6X8

Slixtiesix said:

To all those here who eschew the electronic Rolleis: This spot proves that they are in fact very seductive ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KifjdV1h6X8

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What sold me on the 500cm system in 1995 (here in the USA) was when I went to check out the "electric Rollei" system, the dealer didn't even have a battery charged to demonstrate it for me. He talked about it, but I couldn't put it through it's paces. I went to another dealer and bought the uber-reliable 500 and 3 lenses. I also did contemplate the (less expensive) RZ system. It was too big for my needs and didn't feel as robust as the metal 500. Some 20 years onward, just one failed lens shutter (last year- the 80mm) and a couple clean and lubes.

vpwphoto said:

What sold me on the 500cm system in 1995 (here in the USA) was when I went to check out the "electric Rollei" system, the dealer didn't even have a battery charged to demonstrate it for me. He talked about it, but I couldn't put it through it's paces.

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Your story reminds me of the 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner with the 383 motor I found on a used car lot. The salesman told me that I couldn't test drive it due to their being no gas in the tank.

I still wonder if my being 18 years old at the time had something to do with it?

Alan Gales said:

Your story reminds me of the 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner with the 383 motor I found on a used car lot. The salesman told me that I couldn't test drive it due to their being no gas in the tank.

I still wonder if my being 18 years old at the time had something to do with it?

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Except I was in my later 20's and had $5500 to spend.

I had the $900.00 that they were asking for the Roadrunner too.

Sometimes salesmen really shoot themselves in the foot.

Whoa a lot of information and it is a little difficult for me to digest and I was a little put off because a lot of it is irrelavant.

I am simply asking questions to understand the camera. Most of this thread seems to be centralized about me wanting to shoot 645: I was simply asking. A 645 back exists and doesn't rotate. Cool.

I am somewhat aware of the Rolleiflex SLRs and in what it offers. I do think that they are the better camera, in some ways, but I'm not looking for something innovative or cutting edge, but a reliable, easy-to-find, and not-too-large box camera, that does simple things.

But the main reason why I'm discouraged about the Rolleflex SLR is it's availability.

On keh.com,
I go to the Hasselblad section and this is what they have: 44 bodies, 82 lenses, and 20 backs.
I go to the Rolleiflex section and this is what they have: 0 bodies, 3 lenses, and 1 back (polaroid).

If a Hasselblad works, then I see no reason to go for a rolleiflex unless it had something that the hasselblad didn't have that I wanted. I know it has some (limited) movements, bellows, and now I know that it has rotatable backs but I do not need these. I would appreciate them but it just isn't necessary.

One thing to also consider is the EL series Hasselblads. I moved from a 501CM to a 500ELX, I love the motor drive and the extra size actually makes it more comfortable to hold so the weight doesn't show. I do use it mostly with a 90 prism though...

puketronic said:

On keh.com,
I go to the Hasselblad section and this is what they have: 44 bodies, 82 lenses, and 20 backs.
I go to the Rolleiflex section and this is what they have: 0 bodies, 3 lenses, and 1 back (polaroid).

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We were discussing this in another thread. keh's inventory across several lines is down in the last 2-3 months. I don't think we came to a consensus as to why. I personally have never seen it this low, but I haven't been watching it for that long. In my head I actually had a shopping list made out and I watched pretty much all those items sell out recently. I don't know what the deal is with KEH and Hasselblad. I know that I was getting better deals on Rollei 6008i bodies and lenses on an auction site. And I got the normally expensive 645 rotating back for basically the same price as a regular 120 6x6 back in an auction. But for various accessories and parts KEH was the clear winner. I don't know if those prices were an aberration or what. Hopefully they will get more inventory in. But they will never have as much Rollei SLR stuff as Hassy... not even close.

puketronic said:

I am somewhat aware of the Rolleiflex SLRs and in what it offers. I do think that they are the better camera, in some ways, but I'm not looking for something innovative or cutting edge, but a reliable, easy-to-find, and not-too-large box camera, that does simple things.

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As far as I know the Rollei 6008is and later models are pretty reliable. I haven't read any reports of anyone switching away from the system due to reliability issues.

I would figure out what you really need now and possibly in the future. The only reason I went on about the 645 thing is I traded up from a 645 camera. Unlike you I don't necessarily have a problem cropping. My issue was mainly the wastefulness. At these film prices I saw no reason to shoot 12 square frames and then crop most of them. If you aren't shooting that much 645 I would have to echo the sentiments of other posters and just say crop. By the way when you say you print "full frame" do you mean you include the rebate? I can see why there would be an issue if that is the case. I like rebates as well sometimes. Sometimes though you can't have it all.