Haze on lens elements

W_Taylor76 · Oct 3, 2020

I am looking at getting a used Haselnuss 150 mm CFi lens for my 501c camera. I found one on eBay, but it says there is a light haze on the glass. It also says that the images taken with the lens are 100% sharp. I am wondering if this would be a good purchase or not. What causes haze to appear on a lens? Will the haze affect the images taken with the lens? I’ve never dealt with a haze issue before so I thought I would reach out to the vast wealth of knowledge the exists here.

ic-racer · Oct 3, 2020

With all that is written about lens haze, I divide it in to two simple categories. Haze that cleans off and haze that does not. I don't think there is a way to tell before one disassembles or purchases the lens. There is always some risk the haze is permanent.
I consider haze on the outside lens surfaces as ALWAYS PERMANENT when the lens comes from a middleman.

shutterfinger · Oct 3, 2020

Haze is caused by 1. materials used to make the barrel, lubrication in the leaf shutter gas out and leave a residue on the inside of the lens; 2. the environment in which the lens has been kept causes contaminates to settle on the lens elements; 3. the cement used in cemented pairs fails and turns cloudy. 1 and 2 are removed with a good cleaning, 3 may require recementing, it depends on what cement was used to cement the lens together.

Dan Fromm · Oct 3, 2020

Hmm. I once bought a TTH Aviar, early -- late WWII -- coated lens. It was hazy. The haze wouldn't clean off. Examination under a microscope found that the glass had gazilions of tiny pits.

OP, if I were you I'd buy with the right of return. If the seller won't give you that, well, if you can afford to end up with a paperweight go ahead. Otherwise wait for another one to turn up.

Dan Daniel · Oct 3, 2020

shutterfinger said:
Haze is caused by 1. materials used to make the barrel, lubrication in the leaf shutter gas out and leave a residue on the inside of the lens; 2. the environment in which the lens has been kept causes contaminates to settle on the lens elements; 3. the cement used in cemented pairs fails and turns cloudy. 1 and 2 are removed with a good cleaning, 3 may require recementing, it depends on what cement was used to cement the lens together.

I am not the only one who has seen interior elements with what appears to be simple oil/grease redeposition haze be unfixable because the coating or the glass has been damaged. So i wouldn't assume that all haze not in cement itself can be cleaned.

BradS · Oct 3, 2020

W_Taylor76 said:
......I am wondering if this would be a good purchase or not...

To me, the very fact that you are expressing doubt says that it would likely not be a good purchase for you. You'll never be happy with this lens...there will always be that doubt in your mind and it'll eat at you that you spent money on garbage.

Yes, The haze will almost certainly have a detrimental effect on photos - maybe not all but almost certainly there will be a noticeable effect on some and on those, it will be very noticeable and objectionable.
...and as others have said, some haze cannot be cleaned off.

I'd suggest buying from a reputable dealer who has a no-questions-asked 30day return policy. Why risk spending a lot of money on somebody else's garbage?

shutterfinger · Oct 3, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
I am not the only one who has seen interior elements with what appears to be simple oil/grease redeposition haze be unfixable because the coating or the glass has been damaged

There's always exceptions, what percentage of internal haze are caused by damaged coatings?
Sandstorm or fungus etchings may cause damage that resembles haze.
I'm not sure I'd call damaged coating haze.

btaylor · Oct 3, 2020

shutterfinger said:
There's always exceptions, what percentage of internal haze are caused by damaged coatings?
Sandstorm or fungus etchings may cause damage that resembles haze.
I'm not sure I'd call damaged coating haze.

When it is on an internal element it’s hard to tell. I had a lens for a Kowa Six that had internal “haze,” I sent it in for service and it was a defective coating that could not be cleaned. I ended up using the lens anyway and had no complaints. But I had already bought it, if I was aware before I purchased it I would have passed.

bdial · Oct 3, 2020

I would stay away on that one. I recently bought a Nikkor lens with a haze problem, I didn’t notice it when I committed to buy it. I’ve been able to disassemble it enough to tell that the haze is in one of the internal groups, but i’m not eager to go into enough to clean it.
The images it makes seem sharp enough but the contrast is very low.

Hawkeye · Oct 4, 2020

I'd rather have a clear and clean C than a foggy CFi lens. BradS brings up a good point, if you have doubts now, you will always have doubts.

itsdoable · Oct 4, 2020

Permanent haze on internal elements are usually cause by oxidation/corrosion of the glass, resulting in tiny pits. This happens rarely, the glass must be of the type susceptible to this, and the protective coatings on them must be insufficient. The Minolta Rokkor-M 28mm f/2.8's front cell was notorious for this, and they replaced the front optical block on that lens under an unlimited warrantee (till they ran out of parts) - it's hard to find a good sample today.

The chances are that the Zeiss CFI 150mm haze can be cleaned - it is an old optical design that is not known for using this type of glass, and the CFI is the most recent version, so it's not that old. Nothing is certain though.

Kodachromeguy · Oct 4, 2020

itsdoable said:
This happens rarely, the glass must be of the type susceptible to this, and the protective coatings on them must be insufficient. The Minolta Rokkor-M 28mm f/2.8's front cell was notorious for this,

The Canon 50mm f/1.8 ltm with the black and silver body (the 1960s and 1970s version) also suffers from this haze/etching on the inner elements. A few are clear, but most that you see for sale now are ruined. There are a hundred speculations on what happened, but I have never read a solid reason. The older heavy chrome body model does not seem to suffer this problem, and most of the 50mm f/1.4 black and silver body lenses are clean.

W_Taylor76 · Oct 5, 2020

Thanks for all of the info. Now that I have a better understanding of lens haze and what might be some of the causes, I can make a decision on what to do, which in this case is wait for a better one to come along.

Haze on lens elements

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