Haz-mat charges

jgcull · Oct 2, 2008

Today I was going to place an order with a company I frequent. The D76, Dektol, Hypo-clearing agent, stop bath, and films came to $332.+ and shipping, haz-mat charges $75. The girl told me the haz-mat charges were not required for stop bath or hypo, but were for the D76 and Dektol.

I called a camera shop in Charlotte, which is too far to drive if I'm trying to save $$, but asked them about haz-mat charges. Of course the chemicals are a bit more expensive but thought maybe it would all work out better in the end.

He told me there are no haz-mat charges for (the very opposite!) D76 and Dektol, but are for the others.

What do you know about hazardous materials shipment of chemistry?

Thanks.

Janet

Nick Zentena · Oct 2, 2008

You can make your own stop bath with vinegar from the grocery store.

The raw chemicals for hypo-clear aren't that rare and I don't think would require a hazmat charge.

Same for D-76 and Dektol [D-72] .

They wanted hazmat for dry chemicals?

reellis67 · Oct 2, 2008

I've not encountered Haz-Mat charges with shipping before, but I buy quite a bit from Freestyle, and they don't charge the Haz-Mat with ground shipping (see page 37 of the current catalog). Some places do show these charges, so it could be a case of each vendor using a different default shipping company, some of which do charge for Haz-Mat while others do not...

- Randy

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2008

I can add that these regulations do vary with shipping company, location and the company doing the shipping. It depends on packing method and permits assigned. You have to have some special permits to ship some types of chemicals.

Most companys that I buy from can ship developers, but I cannot ship a developer because it is considered an alkali and is labeled as such. I have to go to the UPS or FedEx central office and fill out a permit and pay in advance for any possible hazard that might result from shipment, and they have to pack it at their central distribution point. Essentially, I have to sign that I am responsible and then rely on their packing.

It is getting quite ridiculous, this fear of chemicals. Thousands of gallons of photo processing solutions and hundreds of tons of powders have been shipped over 100 years and now they are suddenly worried. They still ship gasoline on public highways in tank trucks and other chemicals. We saw a large fire 2 years ago on the NYS Thruway when a tanker went poof in an accident. I believe 6 people were killed. As for other chemicals, a large portion of an interstate in Tenn, near Kingsport was closed when a tanker with an industrual solvent burst and literally dissolved the asphalt.

So, yes there is great variablility in laws, permissions and etc, but they are "attacking" the wrong end of this problem IMHO.

PE

amuderick · Oct 2, 2008

Just find a company that doesn't charge Hazmat like Freestyle or Adorama. PE is dead on.

Chazzy · Oct 2, 2008

amuderick said:
Just find a company that doesn't charge Hazmat like Freestyle or Adorama. PE is dead on.

That's one reason why I prefer Freestyle over B&H, although I use both.

Lowell Huff · Oct 2, 2008

I know that Freestyle and Adorama DO NOT ignore the shipping rules. The shipping rules and definition of hazardous materials are established by the CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS 49. The additional Haz-Mat charges are a function of the shipping agent (UPS) to provide the special handling required by them. If the rules are not interpreted correctly or purposely over labeled, that is a function of the chemical manufacturer's responsibility. Therefore while some chemicals are hazardous by definition, most are not.

MikeSeb · Oct 2, 2008

Last time I ordered, B&H didn't charge for hazmat for Xtol or D-76. There are several C-41 components, however, that they won't ship at all due to "shipping regulations."

As has been recommended, check with B&H, Adorama, Calumet, or Freestyle. Sounds like you are getting hosed.

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2008

I have to add to this that Kodak and its distribution centers seem to have no problem shipping to B&H, and so it is their shipping which is "regulated". Perhaps they don't want to incur an extra charge for insurance or whatever, but Kodak, Ilford and Fuji can freely ship their chemistry to these dealers. I use the term "freely" in the sense that they don't appear to be restricted in the way the dealers are.

Also, some photo chemicals are used by basement drug labs and the DEA takes special notice and requires people who buy these chemicals to be registered. Also, some chemicals used this way are restricted in the concentration of some of the ingredients they may sell such as nitric and sulfuric acid to name 2.

PE

AutumnJazz · Oct 2, 2008

I never knew some photo chemicals could be used to make drugs...Strictly out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

Paul Verizzo · Oct 2, 2008

You see, all these regulations and restrictions work! Have you seen any UPS trucks carrying D-76 blow up? Of course not! Man, am I glad that we have such alert lawyers and bureacrats, saving us from ourselves.

I've noticed that C-41 small kit dry powders are Haz-Mat at Freestyle.

Oh, for the days of glacial acetic acid in glass jugs suspended in wooden crates.......

greybeard · Oct 2, 2008

B&H has never charged me extra for UPS ground shipping of Dektol, HC-110, Kodak Fixer (powder form), or Hypo Clearing Agent. The last time I checked, both Kodak Indicator Stop Bath and Kodak Rapid Fixer (the two-part liquid stuff) were restricted, presumably because they are considered "corrosive" by the ICC. Ilford citric-acid-based stop bath was unrestricted, however, probably because it is neither noxious nor corrosive. B&H also lists the Kodak Rapid Fixer Part A (without the hardener) as unrestricted.

Unless you have an overriding reason to use your current vendor, maybe you should consider a more rational (and knowledgeable) supplier. Judging by the relative costs, it looks as if you were being quoted Haz-Mat shipping for the entire order, when only one item (the stop bath) might realistically require it. For $75, you can buy a lot of vinegar!

thebanana · Oct 2, 2008

MikeSeb said:
Last time I ordered, B&H didn't charge for hazmat for Xtol or D-76. There are several C-41 components, however, that they won't ship at all due to "shipping regulations."

Makes you wonder how the stuff got to the store :confused:

Bob-D659 · Oct 2, 2008

Large volumes in a truck are ok, it's just the small amounts via courier type services that are not, ummm yea, ok I understand, sort of, maybe.

Bob-D659 · Oct 2, 2008

Even better was a news report about a small LN2 spill, they opened the road after the hazardous spill was cleaned up. Exactly how do you clean up liquid nitrogen in a ditch along side a road?

dancqu · Oct 2, 2008

amuderick said:
Just find a company that doesn't charge Hazmat
like Freestyle or Adorama.

I doubt if any of the OP's listed items carry a HazMat charge
if ordered from Photographer's Formulary. They have same
or equal off the shelf chemistry and a great selection of
chemicals, both small and large quantities. Dan

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2008

Bob-D659 said:
Even better was a news report about a small LN2 spill, they opened the road after the hazardous spill was cleaned up. Exactly how do you clean up liquid nitrogen in a ditch along side a road?

By the time the cleanup crew arrived there would be no LN! Unless you lived on an outer planet.

Besides, LN is not toxic, just hazardous.

PE

AutumnJazz · Oct 2, 2008

You can suffocate if you spill some in a poorly-ventalated room, though.

Drew B. · Oct 2, 2008

this stuff you talked about, I believe, come under the federal SARA laws...and above a certain quantity, they have to be documented...w/MSDS sent along and carried by the carrier...if you get what I mean. Most likely, the quantity you want won't have to be regulated.

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
You can suffocate if you spill some in a poorly-ventalated room, though.

Outdoors, it is generally no problem. Indoors I agree.

PE

pnance · Oct 2, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
I never knew some photo chemicals could be used to make drugs...Strictly out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

The reason you can't buy Red Devil Lye (sodium hydroxide) is because it is used in the production of methamphetamine and other illegal drugs.

If you're truly interested, and sick, you can find the formulae on the web.

2F/2F · Oct 2, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
I never knew some photo chemicals could be used to make drugs...Strictly out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

Potassium permanganate and sulfuric acid, for two. I had to fill out the DEA form to purchase these for Ilford's reversal process. I had to provide my intended recipes and a DL photocopy.

If you go to www.photoformulary.com, click on store, and click on bulk chemicals, you can cycle through all the chemicals. The ones for which you need the form are marked.

monkeykoder · Oct 2, 2008

Hey I'm all for letting people do drugs just make sure if they hurt someone else they go to jail.

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
I never knew some photo chemicals could be used to make drugs...Strictly out of curiosity, can you elaborate?

Sorry, but no for obvious reasons.

PE

JBrunner · Oct 3, 2008

Bob-D659 said:
Even better was a news report about a small LN2 spill, they opened the road after the hazardous spill was cleaned up. Exactly how do you clean up liquid nitrogen in a ditch along side a road?

You wait a little while.

Haz-mat charges

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