Hawkeye flash repair

Ces1um

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So I just bought a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye. Bought it off of kijiji from a guy who was cleaning out his grandparent's closet. It's in remarkably good shape and came in the original box with camera, flash, a few flashbulbs, original instruction booklet and the remains of a wrapper from a roll of film. I don't think it was used very much. The instruction booklet looks practically new.

The unfortunate thing is that they had left the batteries in the flash and it sat in it's box, probably for decades just slowly corroding (luckily it was detached from the camera). I imagine all the wiring is toast but I haven't pulled the flash apart to see if that's the case. Does anybody know if these things have much for electronics inside? I'd imagine that it's nothing other than a couple of wires in there and not much else.

There also isn't a flash protector and I've heard of stories, probably exaggerated but grounded in some element of truth, that these bulbs have a tendency to explode propelling hot glass into the air. I figure it wouldn't be hard to make something as a protector (like parchment paper) but can you still buy flash bulbs? Likely ebay would have some but I'm betting there's no NEW source for these things.

I had my son try to 3D print a 620 take up spool but the print failed miserably (the sides of the spool were too flimsy in plastic and tore off the bed of his printer). Anybody know a source for replacement 620 spools?
 

Sirius Glass

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As far as components in the flash gun, wire, capacitor, maybe resistors. Not much.

Search Photrio for 620 film spool sources and 120 film spool modification.

I never had exploding bulbs, probably because later bulbs had a plastic cover that would get very hot, melt some, but held the bulbs together.
 

DWThomas

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Sirius Glass said:
As far as components in the flash gun, wire, capacitor, maybe resistors. Not much
Click to expand...
I would be surprised if there is that much. I didn't own a Hawkeye, but my impression is cameras of that vintage had flash units with the batteries, a bulb socket, and some brass strips to electrically tie things together with one or two ends of the brass strips bent to form springy thingies for battery contacts. Electronic circuits they were not. (The flash on my Argus C-3, for example.) But I could be wrong (it's happened) maybe someone here has been inside the Hawkeye flash. Corrosion is likely, but perhaps not fatal.
 

MattKing

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Haunt the thrift stores, and buy the cameras for the spools in them
I have two cameras and 4 spools, but I'm afraid they aren't for sale! .
I remember talking about 620 spools with my Dad before he passed away. He was surprised to hear what they sold for - he joked that if he had known he could have retired rich based on just the 620 spools lying around in drawers in his and his staff's desks - he was the customer service manager at the North Vancouver Kodak processing lab.
 

AgX

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The old type batteries based on zink-carbon are less corrosive than the modern type alkaline ones.
 

voceumana

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As far as exploding flash bulbs, I've never encountered one. Some bulbs had a plastic coating over the bulb which held the bulb together in case of the bulb fracturing--I think that solves the problem. When the flash is fired, it melts the plastic slightly, and gives off an odor recognized as a flashbulb if you're photo history goes back that far.
 

John51

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Your camera can take 120 on the supply side. Well it could if not for the 2 little tabs Kodak put there to stop you doing that. Removing those tabs is easy enough, it might have already been done for you.

That makes things simple if you do your own processing. For sending to a lab, you can ask them to return the 620 spool. Assuming that they remember to do that, it won't be long before the extra return postage exceeds what the spool costs you. Best to respool back to 120 when sending the film out. Not as tedious as respooling 120 to 620.

In the dark, or in a changing bag, loosely unroll the film into your hand. When you then wind onto a 120 spool, the taped end will be first, just like with an exposed roll from a regular 120 camera. I use a small elastic band to keep it rolled up.

There are some silly prices for 620 spools but if you keep looking for bargains, they will turn up. Sometimes with a free camera. I had a budget of £5 a spool delivered. Kodak Hawkeye for £5 + £10 p+p seemed too much. (This was before the Hawkeye got popular for lens reversal.) I noticed 3 rolls of old 620 film in the pics. Come to daddy. Another way is buying 620 film that nobody else wants. Kodak Ektachrome X uses a dead process. Got 3 rolls of it for £11 delivered. Then there was an offer of 8 620 spools for £6 delivered. I don't need any more 620 spools now.
 

AgX

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voceumana said:
As far as exploding flash bulbs, I've never encountered one. Some bulbs had a plastic coating over the bulb which held the bulb together in case of the bulb fracturing--I think that solves the problem.
Click to expand...
Ye I too so far never encounterd an exploding bulb. But all I used had such coating and a colour indicator that indicated that the bulb was still tight. With a bulb having gone untight the lacquer might not be protection enough.
Anyway, in the later days of AG bulbs the flash luminaires got a clear cover for the reflector, intended as additional protection.
 

Sirius Glass

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mshchem said:
Buy a Holga. WHY DID KODAK MAKE 620???
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To control the film source. When Kodak made cameras that used 620, for a long time they were the only company that made 620 film. That increased Kodak's film sales.
 

mshchem

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Sirius Glass said:
To control the film source. When Kodak made cameras that used 620, for a long time they were the only company that made 620 film. That increased Kodak's film sales.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's kind of a Duh moment on my part. I suppose it was the same with 126 Instamatic. Probably let the camera companies make cameras but not the film.
 

AgX

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There was a time when Kodak tried to exclude competitors. This went on until type 126 (excluding Agfa for instance who reacted with their type Rapid).
Later it made more sense to manufacturers to offer the customer a generic base. As generic processes as C-41 and E-6 and common film conversions.
 

MattKing

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The smaller 620 spools do make it possible to design a slightly smaller camera, but the other comments above respecting increasing film sales are probably correct.
It is important though to realize that when 620 film was introduced there were a lot of different competing film formats.
126 was an entirely different beast - its handling advantages were its reason for being. Those advantages were felt by the customer, the retailer and the photofinisher.
 

mshchem

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jnantz said:
here's the list
http://bvipirate.com/Kodak/FilmHist.html

it was so no one else could sell someone with a kodak camera the film it.
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I found this same list. I thought Teddy Roosevelt was supposed to have broken up all the monopolies? He must have been getting free film.

Same reason my wife spends 50 bucks for an i-phone charger. My inferior Samsung, goes through an equally inferior mini USB cable.

Did the Soviets use Kodak's system?
 

MattKing

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When you look at that list, it is important to understand that while Kodak was dominating the photographic world, there were at the same time a whole bunch of competitors, both US based and international.
As just one example, the UK market was incredibly vibrant, even if Kodak Limited (the Eastman Kodak subsidiary) may have been the largest player.
Does anyone have any links to non-Kodak roll film sizes (if there were any)?
 

mshchem

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My Dad had a 1940-41 Agfa Memo, that was really an Ansco camera, made in NY. It took metal cartridges that spooled out of the new into the old. I think the Kodak cassette is what we have today. I'm not a Leica guy at all but I think the early ones took cassettes that were loaded by the user and opened with the closing of the bottom latch.
 

John51

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mshchem said:
WHY DID KODAK MAKE 620???
Click to expand...

So that people like me can afford a Kodak Medalist.

Once respooling to 620 becomes routine for you, plenty of cameras available with high bang per buck wrt IQ.

In the UK, the Kodak Stirling II can go for <£20. For Americans, the Kodak Tourist is similar. With the Tourist Adapter Kit, it must be the cheapest multi format camera ever. 645, 6x6, 6x9 and 828 from one camera.

In fairness to Kodak, they did similar with the 135 film cartridge and that turned out well.
 

John51

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Not all 620 cameras will take plastic spools.
 
OP
OP

Ces1um

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Ces1um said:
I had my son try to 3D print a 620 take up spool but the print failed miserably (the sides of the spool were too flimsy in plastic and tore off the bed of his printer). Anybody know a source for replacement 620 spools?
Click to expand...

So I am spectacularly annoyed. I took my first roll of film from my Hawkeye to the lab to be processed. I was remarkably clear to them that the spool from my film was a 620 reel, not your standard 120 reel. I made it very clear I required my spool back as I do not have a replacement and I require this spool to use my camera. They returned my film and a spool to me yesterday. I scanned my film, then reached in to pull out my spool. It's a freakin' plastic 120 spool.

Have you ever spoken with someone, tried to be as clear as possible explaining something to them, and just knew that they weren't paying attention to you? They thought they knew more than you and were just patronizing you. Then they find out they f*cked up but you're up sh*t creek as a result. I couldn't be more annoyed with my lab.

I'm going back tomorrow and I'm staying until they find me a metal 620 reel or they buy me one off of eBay. I am thoroughly unimpressed. They've always been good to me in the past. They've provided good to excellent work for me. It's just I went out of my way to make sure they understood how important it was, and they still didn't care enough to take a moment to explain it to the tech developing my film.

I was also speaking to them today and they tell me they're now developing and scanning 110 film (before I discovered the issue). They tell me they're going to charge $10 to develop the film and $20 to scan it. How are they scanning said film? Using a Kodak scanza. Can you imagine paying $20 to have someone use a Kodak scanza to digitize your film? sigh.
 

John51

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If you choose to trust the lab with your 620 spool rather than respooling back to 120, paint the spool. 2 or 3 bright colours, whatever is easy to spot in a bin of 120 spools.
 

BrianShaw

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When you go back to the lab, remember that you’ll catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar!

Mistakes happen; it probably wasn’t malicious.

To be safe I always reroll my 620 onto an old 120 so there’s no chance of error.
 
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