Have you used a mix of different contrast paper developers for direct sunlight scenes?

[Juan Valdenebro]

How do you do it ?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

How do you do it ?

Or do you use a single developer that's softer than Dektol and Ilford MG?

 

[Rick A]

Way back when, we had Kodak Selectol and Selectol Soft because we didn't have multi contrast paper. Now days we adjust with VC filters and MC paper.

 

[Renato Tonelli]

I use Selector-Soft (now made by LegacyPro) as the first developer even when using VC papers.
For dense negatives and contrast below Grade 2, I develop the paper in the Selector-Soft for 2 minutes to bring out the highlights and then I continue to develop the paper in the regular paper developer for 30 seconds to get the blacks. The times in each developer varies according to taste; the low-contrast paper developer is always the first. This work-flow has made a big difference in my prints.

An alternative to Selectol-Soft is Ansco 120 - Photographers' Formulary has it or you can make it yourself.

 

[Paul Howell]

If you mix your own, Dr. Beer's paper developer is variable contrast developer mixed from 2 parts, part A has metol, part B hydroquinone depending on the ratio you can change a paper grade by 1 or 2 grades. Here is a link.

Dr. Beer's Paper Developer

Developer Dr. Beer's Paper Photography Chemistry

stores.photoformulary.com

In the 60s and 70 when VC paper was not popular I used Beer's with grade 2 paper which was my standard, rather than keeping grade 1 and 3 or 4 on hand.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Split developing was used with graded papers to get intermediate contrast grades. If grade 2 was too soft but grade 3 was a bit too contrasty, then one would use a softer-working print developer with the higher grade paper. If that turned out too soft, then a combination, used like Renato describes above was the method. Times in soft and hard developers were varied till the desired contrast was achieved.

The technique is not used nearly as much these days with VC papers since we have filters in half grades and color heads that provide continuous adjustments of contrast.

Note that split developing isn't a panacea for a too-contrasty negative; it was used mostly to refine contrast within the middle contrast grades. Yes, you could use grade 1 paper (or a #00 filter) and a soft-working developer to deal with a really contrasty negative, but it's a whole lot better to deal with that when exposing and developing the negative.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Sirius Glass]

I only use Kodak Dektol.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I only use Kodak Dektol.

Could you show us a scan of a print of yours from a sunny scene printed with Dektol?
I use Dektol only too, and I've never tried any softer contrast paper developer to help sunny scenes, but I suspect it could help a bit for less dodging and burning.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Well, a direct print would be the appropriate one to see, and not one with dodging and burning.
I prefer to make the best negative that's possible, and only then play in the darkroom.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thanks everyone!
I'm trying to get clean open shadows in direct sunlight scenes: last week I read a couple of old posts talking about how softer paper developers can help the last bit...

 

[Paul Howell]

In your case, those who practice split grade printing seem to get good results. There are many threads here and U tube instructional video on the subject.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Could you show us a scan of a print of yours from a sunny scene printed with Dektol?
I use Dektol only too, and I've never tried any softer contrast paper developer to help sunny scenes, but I suspect it could help a bit for less dodging and burning.

First print with on grade on multigrade paper. If with burning and dodging you are not satisfied do the following:

1. Use the stongest Magenta filter and get the best print. Note the time and save that as *
2. Print * and burn and dodge. Note the time, dodging and burning and save that as **
3. Print ** and then set the strongest Yellow fitter and work to get the best print. Note the results and call it ***
4. Print *** and burn and dodge. Note the time, dodging and burning and save that as ****

Now decide was the single grade print the best or ****. You have the best print.

 

[MattKing]

This won't appeal to the OP's sensitivities, and can lead to localized fog and weird tonal differences within a print, but for deadline work in a newspaper darkroom, it works great.
Beside your tray of developer, have a small container of heated developer with a small sponge.
Develop your print normally in the tray - your goal is to obtain useful shadow and mid-tone densities. Your highlights will most likely be too light.
Then you start applying small amounts of heated developer to the highlights with the sponge, doing your best not to fog those areas or bleed into other areas.
The people on the newspaper's "Art" desk are going to mark up your print with a grease pencil anyways, so why worry about a little tonal shift and fog anyways

 

[Sirius Glass]

This won't appeal to the OP's sensitivities, and can lead to localized fog and weird tonal differences within a print, but for deadline work in a newspaper darkroom, it works great.
Beside your tray of developer, have a small container of heated developer with a small sponge.
Develop your print normally in the tray - your goal is to obtain useful shadow and mid-tone densities. Your highlights will most likely be too light.
Then you start applying small amounts of heated developer to the highlights with the sponge, doing your best not to fog those areas or bleed into other areas.
The people on the newspaper's "Art" desk are going to mark up your print with a grease pencil anyways, so why worry about a little tonal shift and fog anyways

Added in BOLD
Beside your tray of developer, have a small container of heated developer with a small sponge.
Develop your print normally in the tray - your goal is to obtain useful shadow and mid-tone densities. Your highlights will most likely be too light.
Then you start applying small amounts of heated developer to the highlights with the sponge, doing your best not to fog those areas or bleed into other areas. Alternated with a tray of water and its own sponge to quickly stop the local development. Alternated with the heated developer.
The people on the newspaper's "Art" desk are going to mark up your print with a grease pencil anyways, so why worry about a little tonal shift and fog anyways

 

[greg zinselmeier]

I only use Kodak Dektol.

I would expect no less

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thanks for the tip, Matt, it sounds very useful.
Anyway it seems the softer paper developer route isn't that used these days...
Who knows if the "less contrast" paper development can help the shadows... Of course film exposure does, but maybe those shadows open up a little more on paper if the whole contrast is reduced.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks everyone!
I'm trying to get clean open shadows in direct sunlight scenes: last week I read a couple of old posts talking about how softer paper developers can help the last bit...

Juan,

First, are you using graded paper? If not, then you really don't need a soft-working developer unless you have a negative that is just too contrasty to print with a #00 filter.

The trick to getting nice open shadows in direct sunlight scenes is to make sure you have adequate exposure. If the shadows are way down on the toe of the film, there is no separation and they are way too close to the maximum black in the scene. I don't know how you meter, but here are a couple of tips:

If you spot meter and base you exposures on a shadow value then you're off to a good start. However, in contrasty sunlit scenes even the best spot meter suffers from a little flare, which can give you a reading that is not accurate and lead to some underexposure. To compensate for this, try to make sure that you are close enough to the shadow that you are basing exposure on so that it fills the viewfinder of the spot meter, not just the metering spot. If that's not possible, use a substitute shadow that's closer. And, when you do have a situation where you can walk up to the shadowed area, meter it both close up and then from camera position with lots of bright stuff also in the viewing area and note the difference in the reading. Then in the future, you can add that much exposure in similar situation where you can't get close to the shadow.

If you're using an averaging or in-camera meter, learn to recognize these contrasty situations and then use your exposure compensation to overexpose a stop from the meter reading. It seems counter-intuitive at first, but remember that your averaging meter bases exposure on a middle value. If that value is so high that the shadows get underexposed, then you get featureless, unprintable shadows.

I had a really difficult print not that long ago; bright sunlit areas and shadows that I wanted open and luminous. I made prints on both grade 1 Galerie and VC paper. They are practically indistinguishable. I did find that using split printing techniques with the VC paper speeded things up a bit.

Making sure you have adequate exposure and working with split-contrast printing may be more profitable than switching to a softer-working developer.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Multigrade paper, yes.
You're amazing, Doremus... Thank you very much!
Yet I remember how much I liked your posts ten years ago: I used to write down lots of things you have explained so clearly and with such joy of sharing.
Yes, I am metering shadows, of course for very short development: when I do sun with rolls, I do sun exclusively, in my second (sun instead of overcast) camera.
Currently I meter shadows at EI160 for HP5+ (not for zones 3-4 placement, but just for 5!), and my short diluted development has very little agitation. Today I developed with HC-110 1+99 (6ml to make 600ml) at 21C, 10 minutes, two gentle inversions in the beginning, then one at minute 3 and one at minute 6. They're drying, but they look fine. Of course paper will say the truth...
I plan doing contact prints with filters 1 1/2, 1, 1/2, and 0, as a set with educational purposes, from strips at 1/125 f/5.6 - 5.6 1/2, 8, 8 1/2 and 11.
Thanks a lot for your clarity on the little use of soft contrast paper developers today.
I guess I'll have to start loving dodging and burning at least the bit more that's necessary for printing sunny scenes well...
Have a nice day!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

By the way, sun is very stable here (8am - 4pm), so I expose sunny scenes at 1/125 f/8 when blue sky has a few clouds. 5.6 1/2 for no clouds, and f/8 1/2 for lots of clouds, and that seems to work (for now).

 

[gone]

Being a relatively good photographer and only so so printer, my goal is to nail the exposure, even if it takes bracketing at different apertures. That way I don't have to deal w/ it on the print end. It helps that I don't care too much about shadow detail, in bright Az sun you work w/ what you got. Florida was a totally different story w/ it's diffused light, there was plenty of shadow detail when I lived there.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Being a relatively good photographer and only so so printer, my goal is to nail the exposure, even if it takes bracketing at different apertures. That way I don't have to deal w/ it on the print end. It helps that I don't care too much about shadow detail, in bright Az sun you work w/ what you got. Florida was a totally different story w/ it's diffused light, there was plenty of shadow detail when I lived there.

The US southwest allow one to work with great SBR or is it SLR this week. I forget.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Multigrade paper, yes.
You're amazing, Doremus... Thank you very much!
Yet I remember how much I liked your posts ten years ago: I used to write down lots of things you have explained so clearly and with such joy of sharing.
Yes, I am metering shadows, of course for very short development: when I do sun with rolls, I do sun exclusively, in my second (sun instead of overcast) camera.
Currently I meter shadows at EI160 for HP5+ (not for zones 3-4 placement, but just for 5!), and my short diluted development has very little agitation. Today I developed with HC-110 1+99 (6ml to make 600ml) at 21C, 10 minutes, two gentle inversions in the beginning, then one at minute 3 and one at minute 6. They're drying, but they look fine. Of course paper will say the truth...
I plan doing contact prints with filters 1 1/2, 1, 1/2, and 0, as a set with educational purposes, from strips at 1/125 f/5.6 - 5.6 1/2, 8, 8 1/2 and 11.
Thanks a lot for your clarity on the little use of soft contrast paper developers today.
I guess I'll have to start loving dodging and burning at least the bit more that's necessary for printing sunny scenes well...
Have a nice day!

Glad to help, Juan.