I'd guess the quality on almost all these things is pretty close to the quality of the authentic article. Like I said earlier, the Jobo-copy stuff I have is fine. I got it a lot cheaper than it's being sold for now, though. And, at the time, I completely assumed Jobo was out of business (I got my Jobo stuff used - it was already over 20 years old).
Currently, though, the knock-off prices don't seem to be much cheaper than the genuine Jobo - so there's no real good reason to buy them.
Just curious, how do the knock-offs compare to the 20 year old originals, material and fit wise?
Just curious, how do the knock-offs compare to the 20 year old originals, material and fit wise?
Honestly, it’s posts (and threads) like this that make me think I‘m wasting my time on this site. I tried to offer the legal framework that governs this question. Another poster (a nonlawyer who lives in Canada) tells me my analysis is “weird.” And now you tell me that it’s “empty” because the economics of product piracy overwhelm the legal remedies.
You are certainly right about the economics. But that is a non sequitur. What has that to do with the legal framework for protecting trademarks in the United States? And why disparage my explanation as empty? Can you not make your valid point, that the law is not well-equipped to redress the flood of product piracy, without disparaging someone who’s trying to offer an answer to the OP’s question?
Honestly, it’s posts (and threads) like this that make me think I‘m wasting my time on this site. I tried to offer the legal framework that governs this question. Another poster (a nonlawyer who lives in Canada) tells me my analysis is “weird.” And now you tell me that it’s “empty” because the economics of product piracy overwhelm the legal remedies.
You are certainly right about the economics. But that is a non sequitur. What has that to do with the legal framework for protecting trademarks in the United States? And why disparage my explanation as empty? Can you not make your valid point, that the law is not well-equipped to redress the flood of product piracy, without disparaging someone who’s trying to offer an answer to the OP’s question?
For one example: A section 43(a) claim under the Lanham Act does not require registration with the USPTO.
I can see your point mshchem : PRODUCTPLACEMENT !
But no - i really have no interest in making any product popular here .....beliefe me or beliefe me not ......!
How can I make it up to you now ? Will you be able to forgive me afterwards, so I get one last chance?......?
So let me try :
Hallo Guys and Dolls....
you are new and shot film ? It is a fascinating experience,
you can really belive me, i know what i'm talking about !
However - hand on heart, but do you want to immerse yourself in the truly breathtaking experience of a bygone era? So if you really want to belong you absolutely have
to develope your films yourselfs.
THE FIRST THING YOU SHOULD DO IS DECIDE ON THE RIGHT DEVELOPEMENT CAN !
THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO COME FROM JOBO !
HERE ARE ALTERNATIVES, SOME ARE SLIGHTLY CHEAPER, SOME EVEN BETTER THAN JOBO PRODUCTS !
View attachment 334227
View attachment 334229View attachment 334236
Where is the temperature controlled bath, chemical input spout, and the tank or drum lifting arm for raise and emptying the tank or drum? Its called "Fakin' it, but not makin' it".
Where is the temperature controlled bath, chemical input spout, and the tank or drum lifting arm for raise and emptying the tank or drum? Its called "Fakin' it, but not makin' it".
In my case, I had a national reputation for making new equipment concepts take off like a rocket in construction equipment applications. So just about every new thing, or every aspiring inventor of such things, would show up at my office for an opinion. Some already had patents; others were considering whether to undergo the fuss and expense or not. And scaling up was a principle many didn't understand : practical prototypes became mass-production nightmares; thriving local cottage industries would go broke once they took on the extra overhead necessary for wider regional expansion.
The choice was often between bankruptcy going it on your own, or selling your rights in desperation, and receiving a royalty too small to even pay for your morning coffee. A number of innovations did catch on, and were even contracted to big box stores. But then they'd discover they were being charged stiff storage rates for mass-manufactured product, deliberately kept away from any actual stores presence for sake of those fees, while the retail shelves themselves suddenly did have cheap Chinese knock-offs of those very items!
Yet these inventor-entrepreneurs had no profit margin to either allow them to hire a serious lawyer, or even show proof of loss of substantial sales. The big box chain could simply print out a report showing that the product was a failure and didn't sell. Meanwhile, the fakes would be removed from sight. The little guy loses most of the time! Only the big manufacturing Corps with their own legal Depts and huge financial reserves win any battles. Just watch some of those fun Shark TV episodes, and their routine remark that a patent doesn't protect you a bit from import knockoff piracy, unless you have your own substantial legal dept.
And here I am, based on my own experience, citing kinds of products potentially useful to millions of users, and proving so in actual sales, hundreds of millions of dollars overall, once these things caught on nationwide, yet doing so on a forum where the specific items in question probably sells in the dozens at most to this entire country! We're talking about a flea on the back of a hamster. With pies fights going on about intellectual property rights and patent infringements, and industrial spying, between Pharma a Techie companies, with billions of dollars at stake each instance, do you really think a skilled lawyer is going to be interested in defending one plastic film processing canister versus another?
I would say that you can get there with a simple developing tank for black and white.....
But If you want you can also start with this here :
...aha...now I understand you, sorry Sirius Glass. You are of the opinium that a simple development can is not enough to start developing film?
.....there should be people who started with less !
But you'll surely be right. Maybe we could agree that we
recommend b&w film development to beginners first?
...by the way why do you need a lifting arm?
Look - here is a real nice Basic Set,......there are many others
avaible from different manufacturer's.
I don't remember anything about this from China. It doesn't
matter because who has to buy a fake starter set where the
lifting arm isn't included afterwards.....!
I do not limit myself to black & white film.
BTW : Rotation processor for c41 AND E6 made in ChinaI do not limit myself to black & white film.
Fascinating. Just read this over. Loyalty to a piece of plastic junk is amazing and speaks to the real value Jobo has in putting together a system that offers many a first window into a systematic approach to processing film. I'm one, too, though I've always thought the whole of it was vastly over-priced. But let me add that I was happy to pay the price to end the misery of poor results... which it helped me do. In a way, community labs would have done the same thing, but my nearest is over an hour away at highway speed and the hours are horrible.
But the thing is with today's 3-D printing, the capital costs for serving a small niche have fallen dramatically, and Jobo's value just ain't what it used to be.... and that happened LONG BEFORE eTone knock-offs. Small manufacturers don't have the capital costs they used to, the inventory or raw materials costs either. But the fall in prospective sales volume as photographers moved to digital is what really accounts for Jobo's failure to see value in new innovations. So they didn't. And now the youngsters who couldn't afford Jobo prices for "meh" gear have come along and you see a series of competing products... but most of these are cottage productions... and recent enough that few here are familiar with them. Fewer still would stumble across these today because you just really really really have to seek it out.... almost as scarce as a Goodman camera. Bet few here are familiar with those either. But I think this is what film has become and in part why the younger generation approaches the hobby differently.
That's okay. I'm a cottage user, so I'm very pleased with the new innovations and yeah, I'd support Jobo over eTone any day. But I'm also beginning to look at dumping my Jobo. I'm not going to replace it with industrial grade stuff like Drew seems to have done (Bravo by the way), but some of the 3-D gear is simply better where I need better (than Jobo) and the rest... I just don't really need.... or at least I don't need any more 'cause now I hav a choice. And yes, I think I'm beginning to get repeatable results consistently without the footprint, cost, reel loading bugaboos and other things I just don't like about Jobo or find that it does particularly well. I love rotary processing, but my CPE2+ is too small in the parts I need and too big in the parts I don't. It was great... until it wasn't. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
Once I tried the Jobo system I was hooked and started using it for black & white film too. Well worth the cost for consistent development of all film formats.
I don't use their rotary processors, but I like the Jobo tanks/reels for hand inversion. The tanks don't leak and the reels are easy to load, IMO.
I've always used JOBO tanks on Chromega rotary bases. They cost maybe $30 on eBay and do a fine job of turning JOBO tanks when developing B+W film.
I found it on the net some weeks before. The seller is located in china. Perhaps there is a Joint Venture with JOBO?
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