Have I paid too much for Rolleicord V...needs shutter CLA.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

Hello. My first post here. I just bought a Rolleicord V from a seemingly reputable seller on eBay for $244. It's in very good cosmetic shape and the taking lens is very clean. However, there were some undisclosed problems. The shutter appears to work fine on all the higher speeds, but the speeds at 1/15 and below either get stuck with the shutter completely open, or it partially closes. I got a quote from Mark Hama for $165 to have a full CLA done. Have I already paid too much into this camera to make that worthwhile? I'm still within a return period. Or if I can get a good chunk of the CLA paid for in a partial refund would that make it worthwhile? I thought $240 was a good deal based on the general eBay history of this camera, but I'm not so sure I can stomach another $165 unless it still seems like a good overall value. Any advice would be most appreciated.

mikebarger · Nov 28, 2012

I'd send it back. You'll have more in it than I have in the Rolleiflex 3.5F I bought; even with a Harry Fleenor overhaul. For the same, or less, money I'd rather have a flex than a cord.

Peltigera · Nov 28, 2012

Do you need the slower speeds? They run on a different mechanism to the faster speeds and their not working right will not impinge on the faster speeds.

I am struggling a bit with your prices - it would seem to be about £150 for the camera and £100 for the CLA - that makes about £250 for a working clean camera - more than I would pay for a Rolleicord. If the seller will help with the cost of the CLA, I might go for it, though, as you could be looking at a good camera for the next 20 years for that cost.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

Your conversions are correct. I've been watching Minolta Autocords and Rolleicord V's on eBay for a little while now, and the clean/functioning ones all seem to be going for that price +/- a few dollars. Of course, this one was represented as clean/functioning.

I doubt I'll need speeds below 1/30 very often, and when I do I always have an RB67. Those situations will require a tripod and time spent setting up so it won't be a major inconvenience to bring out the big camera.

If the CLA were fully funded by the seller, would you then think this was a decent deal?

danfogel · Nov 28, 2012

I can't imagine a seller would pay for the entire CLA. You can ask, but I would expect the seller to say "return it," rather than give back most of the money. The value of the camera isn't likely camera plus CLA. The CLA cost for many cameras exceeds the cost of the camera price, but we all know that going in. My $0.02.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

So, what do you think is a fair price for a clean working Rolleicord V? There are very few on eBay currently and most of them have a buy it now above $350 US. Should I be looking somewhere else for better prices?

mablo · Nov 28, 2012

I think the price is quite okay. I just bought a good looking one from a reputable seller for €250. I had see numerous examples for around €200 but mostly faulty one way or another. The fact with these cameras is they usually have been sitting on a shelf for a very long time and need some adjustment and cleaning.

Dali · Nov 28, 2012

I would not pay more than $300 for a Rolleicord V in perfect working condition, i.e., CLAed by a someone serious.

If we look the opposite way, $300 - $165 CLA = $135 on Ebay. This is roughly whay I paid for mine. In your case, we end up slightly over $400.

$165 to fix the slow speeds seems to me a little overpriced. Try to get a quotation from Mark Hansen. The guy is sometimes rude but he knows a lot about shutters. He worked on my Cord years ago and it works perfectly since then.

Hope it helps!

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check him out. I've got an email out to Carol Miller also who appears to do most things for <$100. I thought the $165 seemed a little high. Would you only send it off to someone who specifically works on these cameras, or would any analog repair person be able to handle this. I have people locally, but I would describe them as more Jack of all trades rather than Rollei specialists.

Hatchetman · Nov 28, 2012

I recently paid $280 for a 'Cord Va from KEH, their "bargain" condition, which is pretty good. Everything seems to be working properly.

Did you get any caps, case, filters, etc? That stuff can add up.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

Should have mentioned that. Came with a very nice condition original box, original case in decent condition but with some torn stitching on the top flap, and the original lens caps. I would say the camera cosmetically and lenses is far better than bargain at KEH.

R.Gould · Nov 28, 2012

Can,t quote for a rolleicord V but 3 yrs ago I paid £99 for a Rolleicord Va11 Cla'd and wirking fine to this day so yes, I think you have been overcharged, if it had had a recemt Cla then all should be working fine, that is what you are paying for,
Richard

Jeff L · Nov 28, 2012

Dali said:
Try to get a quotation from Mark Hansen. The guy is sometimes rude but he knows a lot about shutters. He worked on my Cord years ago and it works perfectly since then.

Hope it helps!

Mark Hansen has done good work on a Super Ikonta for me. I would use him again. He was also friendly and good to deal with - maybe it was a bad day.

Hatchetman · Nov 28, 2012

I dunno. It sounds reasonable to me. If you can get somebody to CLA it for $100 bucks you have a mint camera. You didn't do too badly. You win some and lose some over the long run.

BrianShaw · Nov 28, 2012

The prices on Rolleicords have risen sharply over the years. Sounds like you paid a decent price for an old camera, but you certainly didn't get a bargain. Prices to overhaul vary. That is on the high side, but not out-of-the-question. If you shop around for a bargain repairman you'll likely find one or two -- like Flutots, and Hansen, and Ebell. For $165 from a Rollei expert you'll likely get more than just the shutter flushed, but checking of the focus mechanism too. Having faced such a quandry (it always is a question when buying old cameras to use) I can tell you that a old but decent Rolleicord that has been properly overhauled will serve you well for a decade or more. A old but decent Rolleicord with no servicing or poor servicing will be an unreliable camera to work with. Your choice.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

I'm kind of inclined to see if I can get a little bit of a refund and just keep it. This may be cosmic balance for the deal I got on my RB67 + 90mm + 180mm for $200 last year. All working beautifully.

dnk512 · Nov 28, 2012

Ensure the lens is capable of edge to edge sharp images. Focus calibration is not an issue. Miss-aligned lens elements or de-cementing elements is. Same with scratches and coating marks. If the unit is in top shape and simply the lubricants need replacement, keep it. Yes you could save $50-100 if you keep shopping and get lucky, but you could also pay $300 for a unit the works for 3 months and then fails because the CLA was done using the wrong lubricant. If the shutter, focus and rewind mechanisms are is as good shape as exterior, keep it. If you suspect the unit has lens or mechanical ware/damage return it.

I bought an Autocord in top shape for $200 and all was working. Still I changed the cover and payed for a CLA and a new focus-screen. I think I put about $500 in all, perhaps more if I add the filters and hood.

BrianShaw · Nov 28, 2012

wcrankshaw said:
I'm kind of inclined to see if I can get a little bit of a refund and just keep it. This may be cosmic balance for the deal I got on my RB67 + 90mm + 180mm for $200 last year. All working beautifully.

You paid a fair price for today's market. Suggest you either keep it or return it. Trying to renegotiate the deal will ruin your karma.

Sometimes you get a real bargain (as you did with the RB) and other times you pay the price you paid. It's 40+ year old gear after all.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

dnk512 said:
Ensure the lens is capable of edge to edge sharp images. Focus calibration is not an issue. Miss-aligned lens elements or de-cementing elements is. Same with scratches and coating marks. If the unit is in top shape and simply the lubricants need replacement, keep it. Yes you could save $50-100 if you keep shopping and get lucky, but you could also pay $300 for a unit the works for 3 months and then fails because the CLA was done using the wrong lubricant. If the shutter, focus and rewind mechanisms are is as good shape as exterior, keep it. If you suspect the unit has lens or mechanical ware/damage return it.

I bought an Autocord in top shape for $200 and all was working. Still I changed the cover and payed for a CLA and a new focus-screen. I think I put about $500 in all, perhaps more if I add the filters and hood.

I'm going to run a roll through this afternoon and check all that stuff out. The leather is all really nice. The only problem is where some of he rubber has come up on one of the film spool retaining knobs (no idea what it's actually called). The lenses are very clear, and the inside of the camera is very clean.

Sirius Glass · Nov 28, 2012

I strongly recommend that you repeatedly dry fire the shutter at all the affected speeds. I have found the repeatedly exercising the "sticking" shutter speeds can clear up some of the problems your are experiencing. I had a lens for my Speed Graphic that had that problem, I dry fired each of the slow speed approximately 100 times each to clear up the sticking. After about 50 shoots on several of the speeds, the shutter was sounding much better. I would do that before you consider sending it back or getting a CLA.

However if the foam seals are showing any signs of degradation, send the camera in for a CLA.

Also, I would rather have a used camera that I had CLAed than exchange it for another camera the had not been CLAed.

Alex Muir · Nov 28, 2012

I bought a Vb last year on eBay. It cost £105. It is not in great cosmetic condition, but the lenses were very clean. It developed a transport problem, and the shutter problem you have, after 4 or 5 rolls. It cost £90 for an overhaul to fix these faults. I have kept my eye on the market during that period, and I'm sure the lower price reflects the cosmetic condition. I would be surprised if you could buy a good, clean example of any of the V,s for under £200 in the UK. As others have said, if you get it fixed, it should work for years to come. The alternative is a refund and start again, but you could face similar issues with another example. Alex

Alex Muir · Nov 28, 2012

I'm sorry about the confused text in my post. The figures are 105, 90 and 200 UK Pounds, on that order! Alex

Peltigera · Nov 28, 2012

Sirius Glass said:
I strongly recommend that you repeatedly dry fire the shutter at all the affected speeds. I have found the repeatedly exercising the "sticking" shutter speeds can clear up some of the problems your are experiencing. I had a lens for my Speed Graphic that had that problem, I dry fired each of the slow speed approximately 100 times each to clear up the sticking. After about 50 shoots on several of the speeds, the shutter was sounding much better. I would do that before you consider sending it back or getting a CLA.

Sound advice. I have changed barely working shutters to well functioning shutters doing just that. But only on very cheap cameras - if I had paid over £100 for the camera concerned, I would not have been impressed by needing to.

Richard S. (rich815) · Nov 28, 2012

With patience you can do much better. Personally I'd never pay this much for a Rolleicord unless it was truly mint perfect aesthetically and/or at least had a recent documented CLA. Slow speeds off is not good.

If you are not patient and need or want it now negotiate some discount and get the CLA done but only if you're sure you'll keep it for a while because that's a lot of money invested into a Rolleicord.

Otherwise wait and be patient. I've gotten two Rolleiflexes for $139 and $150 this way. Yes needed work and were once (twice?) in a blue moon but they come up. After CLA's have have two awesome Rolleiflex cameras (3.5E3 Xenotar and 2.8C Planar) for less than what you're paying for a 'cord. I've found decent Rolleicords for $50-70.

And lastly, stay away from eBay. Lately things seem overpriced while the descriptions from buyers are getting less and less accurate. Watch here and other camera forums and lists.

wcrankshaw · Nov 28, 2012

I just ran a roll through and developed. The exposures all look to be dead on, and I used multiple different shutter speeds throughout the roll - just not below 1/30. I haven't scanned yet, but from the look of the negatives there are no focus issues other than my own.

I dry fired the thing quite a bit last night, but nowhere near 100 times per speed. I'll give that a shot. It definitely made the self timer work after forcing it many times. I have a feeling when I scan the negatives and see the shots, this camera will be remaining with me.

Have I paid too much for Rolleicord V...needs shutter CLA.

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