Have anyone made your own hot dry mount press?

tkamiya · Nov 10, 2014

I'm not even sure if this is possible..... and there's very little on google.

Have anyone ever seen or done making your own hot dry mount press? I could easily see getting a large sheet of aluminum and a hinge, and mount it to a base of some kind. Then heater and thermistor along with controller. My needs are fairly large, in range of 60x40. Not only do I need something like this to dry a large print, but also to dry mount it to a backing board for framing.

I'm pretty sure it will be cheaper for me to just pay someone to do it, but I'd like to at least explore what's possible on my own.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 10, 2014

A couple plates of aluminum (not cheap), some deep C-clamps, and a large oven would do it. I've done something similar in the past on the scale of a standard kitchen oven. But 60x40 (presumably inches)? Nope.

Do you know anyone who owns a pizza restaurant? Or a bakery?

Ken

tkamiya · Nov 10, 2014

Yes, it's inches. Yes, it's QUITE large!

If it's Seal210 size, occasionally they come out to used market at reasonable prices. I think Pizza oven will be way too hot? I want to mount a photograph, and not bake it crisp. Besides, I don't think tomato sauce stains are archival.

polyglot · Nov 10, 2014

Done it, no. Looked into it, yes. It's certainly possible if you have access to machine tools but there are a few wrinkles if you want to go really big:
- a big, rigid aluminium plate with a smooth surface could be expensive, but I think you can buy 1200x2400x4mm sheet of crap like 5005 for $200-$250ish... and you need two.
- the platen need to be pretty rigid so that your clamping force is uniform, which probably means attaching ridges on the back of the platen. Are you any good with a TIG welder? Guarantee you won't melt through the platen and mar the working face? I think the commercial ones are cast and then have their face machined flat.
- the hinge is not simple because it needs to accommodate a range of thicknesses while maintaining the faces parallel
- a single clamping bar (as seen on a basic Seal press) can work, but I think you'll get a more-uniform clamping with several cams+bars, especially if your platen are not super-rigid
- the clamping mechanism needs a way of pre-setting the clamp load (again, look at a Seal). To get the same pressure as a smaller press does over such a large area means a HUGE total force is required; a simple human-driven lever may not suffice
- if this is for drying, how does the steam escape? It's a lot further for moisture to travel across a 40x60 than an 8x10, you might need to clamp/un-clamp a few times as the paper dries to let the vapour out
- don't forget insulation on the back of the platen otherwise your power requirements are huge. Heating a couple square metres of aluminium is not going to be real fast or cheap anyway.
- heat control is pretty easy; you just need a 2-channel (one for each face) PID controller (e.g. arduino), big solid state relays to switch the mains power, a couple of thermistors and a bunch of bolt-on aluminium-cased resistors to screw to the back of each platen.

tkamiya · Nov 10, 2014

I'm not worried about electronics, at least control part of it. That'll be just a simple negative feedback loop.

Mechanics will be my biggest problem. I'm thinking 4mm will be way too thin. But I realize going 20mm will be awfully expensive. So perhaps 6mm with several cross brace. But now, I think this is unrealistic. No, I'm not good at welding. In fact, I've done it only few times.

I guess it'll be cheaper and more realistic to buy Seal 210 and let professionals do the mounting. I'm thinking by the time I'm done, buying NEW Seal 210M may not be that much more than cost of material and machining to make my own.

Printing won't exceed 16x20. Maybe if I go crazy, I can do much larger but that'll be RC.

I have a project to print something LARGE (this will be done commercially), then mount and frame. I ran into issues keeping the print flat at 16x30. I want to go even larger. Oh well.... DIY has limitations....

nsurit · Nov 10, 2014

Keep your eyes open, you will find a used one at a "right" price. I found two that way. Bill Barber

summicron1 · Nov 10, 2014

find the largest seal you can and then mount the picture in sections if you have to -- you can shift it around and do the left and right side, then front and back, or whatever. It doesn't all have to fit under the platen at once.

Making your own was be very difficult -- it's not just the heat, as several mention, but the pressure, which must be pretty high to get uniformity.

tkamiya · Nov 10, 2014

Let me ask this....

How difficult is it to use a clothing iron to dry mount? I have seen instructions on how this can be done but I don't know anyone that actually did this. Anyone?

Arklatexian · Nov 10, 2014

tkamiya said:
Let me ask this....

How difficult is it to use a clothing iron to dry mount? I have seen instructions on how this can be done but I don't know anyone that actually did this. Anyone?

Been there, done that. Worked, for me, on 8 x 10 inch and smaller prints. Was not really happy with the results so I bought a Seal press that works for 11 x 14 on one pass and 16 x 20 on two passes. I am much happier as a result. I suggest that you take your time and try to find a good used press. You may consider one expensive until you try to make one yourself....Regards

Bill Burk · Nov 11, 2014

tkamiya,

I once fantasized about taking a barbecue lighter, encasing it in a frame and pouring plaster of Paris around it to make a press.

The scale of my idea was much smaller... But until I finally got my press, the thought kept coming back to me.

Now I have a smaller, older press and I use it all the time to flatten my prints. But I rarely turn the heat on. Dry mounting doesn't appeal to me as much as I thought it would.

Larger presses are sometimes vacuum-frames, like platemakers. Just wanted to have you keep your mind open to that idea, because platemakers often show up - and one might serve your purpose (thinking if you can get the print flat, you might not need to dry mount it).

tkamiya · Nov 11, 2014

Hi, Bill...

What IS a platemaker??

I do have a dry press but it's smaller. I think it's something like 14x18. I'll be on look out for something like Seal 210.

I actually DO like dry mounting. In fact, all of my B&W prints are dry mounted but those are smaller. 11x14 used to be the largest I'd print. I'm fixing to print 16x20 in B&W. My color prints are lab printed and they can be large. That's really where problems start....

So... anyone wanna sell bigger press??

darkosaric · Nov 11, 2014

If you are patient - from time to time in USA you can find 16x20 inches press for around 200$, in Europe it is slightly more. I waited for more than half a year to get mine, but you buy this kind of stuff usually once in a life time .

polyglot · Nov 11, 2014

Never seen them under $800 in AU, and that's for 11x14

darkosaric · Nov 11, 2014

Sorry to hear that polyglot, Australia is in bad luck with items that are big and heavy - they are hard and expensive to ship from other continents. USA is the luckiest in this manner, so for OP it should be easy.

But look on the bright side - you did not had this financial crises that is tormenting USA and Europe since 2008 .

Bill Burk · Nov 11, 2014

tkamiya said:
Hi, Bill...

What IS a platemaker??

You might think of it as a UV exposure unit for Alternative Processes... A large contact printing frame.

A light source (you don't need but that's the main part of making plates and exposing Alt Processes)... A large frame with a sheet of glass, rubber blanket and a vacuum pump to suck the plate (or print) material up against the negative glass and if it's well-designed to remove all the bubbles.

ic-racer · Nov 11, 2014

Back in the 1970s I used this book when making my first darkroom. The book is still available from Amazon and describes how to make a heated dry mount press. You can see the blueprint for the press on the cover.

vpwphoto · Nov 11, 2014

nsurit said:
Keep your eyes open, you will find a used one at a "right" price. I found two that way. Bill Barber

Agreed... ^^^ so much stuff out there in moth-balls, and ready to be scrapped. Check yellow pages (perhaps decade old ones) for frame-shops/sign shops that may be closed or failing.

trythis · Nov 11, 2014

How about a plastics shop and use their big vacuum press? They use heat and vacuum. Wood workers also use big plastic bags to apply wood veneer to plywood sheets.

nsurit · Nov 11, 2014

There are a couple on Craigslist near where I live. One at $250 and another at $700 in Austin. They smoke alot of dope in Austin. Doubt they will get the $700. I paid $75 for my Seal 15' X 18" and $250 for the Seal Commercial 210m (18" X 23"). Be patient nad keep looking.

Jim Jones · Nov 11, 2014

A fellow camera club member used a flatiron with fairly good results for up to 16x20. Rather than a full 60x40 platen, perhaps a narrow 40 inch platen that can be gradually moved the length of the print would be more practical if you use mounting tissue that bonds while heating rather than while cooling.

DREW WILEY · Nov 11, 2014

Why?????????????? Do you have any idea what a one-off custom teflon coat would cost? Or even what that kind of solid castings would cost? People have used ordinary household irons, generally with predicatably unpredictable results. If you want to make a large vac press that uses wet-mount glue there have been kits and plans in the past; but then again, why, when you can find such things used? Making a successful hot press is a very questionable project, cause you'd still need a vac blanket anyway, and some serious wattage. Hope you have a liberal fire insurance policy too. Look at DIY plywood and veneer vac presses as a rough guide, and I mean rough. But even a good flat weight can be used with the correct wet mount technique. Of course, you have to countermount anything like that to prevent warping and have the right kind of mounting board to begin with. Both Daige andSeal offer appropriate adhesives, then you need a high quality closed-cell foam roller. Not difficult unless you have have a cold or humidwork room. Practice, yes, but that is especially true of all large print techniques. Wet mounting is quite economical. Otherwise, very large prints are generally done using rolls of permanent hi-tack acrylic
adhesive, which is completely unforgiving in terms of technique. Wet mounting only works for fiber-based prints, not RC. But it is how
big black and white prints were successfully mounted for decades. Vac presses just made it a bit easier.

scheimfluger_77 · Nov 11, 2014

tkamiya said:
Let me ask this....

How difficult is it to use a clothing iron to dry mount? I have seen instructions on how this can be done but I don't know anyone that actually did this. Anyone?

I used this method while still in high school. The only real issue is keeping the heat on long enough, I tended to get peeling corners but time on heat and pressure should take care of it. The dry mount tissue I used previously ran at 210 to 225 F. The stuff at Freestyle now is listed as 175- 185 F. for two minutes so using an iron would not be the problem.

Steve

scheimfluger_77 · Nov 11, 2014

ic-racer said:
Back in the 1970s I used this book when making my first darkroom. The book is still available from Amazon and describes how to make a heated dry mount press. You can see the blueprint for the press on the cover.
View attachment 97688

Never saw this one but just bought it for $0.03 (plus $3.99 shipping of course )

Jim Jones · Nov 11, 2014

DREW WILEY said:
Why?????????????? Do you have any idea what a one-off custom teflon coat would cost? Or even what that kind of solid castings would cost? People have used ordinary household irons, generally with predicatably unpredictable results. If you want to make a large vac press that uses wet-mount glue there have been kits and plans in the past; but then again, why, when you can find such things used? Making a successful hot press is a very questionable project, cause you'd still need a vac blanket anyway, and some serious wattage. Hope you have a liberal fire insurance policy too. Look at DIY plywood and veneer vac presses as a rough guide, and I mean rough. But even a good flat weight can be used with the correct wet mount technique. Of course, you have to countermount anything like that to prevent warping and have the right kind of mounting board to begin with. Both Daige andSeal offer appropriate adhesives, then you need a high quality closed-cell foam roller. Not difficult unless you have have a cold or humidwork room. Practice, yes, but that is especially true of all large print techniques. Wet mounting is quite economical. Otherwise, very large prints are generally done using rolls of permanent hi-tack acrylic
adhesive, which is completely unforgiving in terms of technique. Wet mounting only works for fiber-based prints, not RC. But it is how
big black and white prints were successfully mounted for decades. Vac presses just made it a bit easier.

The Teflon coat isn't needed if a full-size layer of almost anything that can stand the heat covers the print, mounting tissue, and substrate. A solid casting should be unnecessary, too. A good redneck mechanic, unimpaired with an excess of book learning, might use a clothes dryer element and ordinary electrical conduit for the basic components.

tkamiya · Nov 11, 2014

Jim, you forgot 2x4.... and cement!

My current press, and old Seal doesn't have teflon coating either. This project may very well be impractical but it was fun thinking about it.

Have anyone made your own hot dry mount press?

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