Hassie vs Rolleiflex SL66

Buying decision time... I'm currently looking to replace my russian blad clone, which has taught me two things
1) I love 6x6
2) Russian kit isn't exactly reliable
3) The Zenith 80 doesn't have a lot of lens selection!

I have discounted the bronica SQ as it doesn't seem to do anything better, just cheaper - I don't want to feel like i bought second rate because it was cheaper. I have discounted the rollei 6006/6008 as too electronic.

Requirements are for a 50mm and an 80mm lens, I'm looking at:

1) Rolleiflex SL66 - the bellows interest me hugely (I shoot a variety, some close-up, some architecture). Tilt interests me. I also like it being a bit more unusual than the blad.
I'm going to suffer from what seem to be broadly similar prices, but much lower availability. There are also more limited accessories.
I'm also a little unsure with the bellows and the exposure compensation - would it be right in saying I won't need to worry too much about it for "Normal" use?
2) Hassie 500CM - which would be the "standard" choice and would be easier to obtain / get a wider selection of lenses.

As I understand it reliability is similar between the two, IE i should budget for a CLA if i don't buy in person and test it properly.

Anything I'm missing? Any advice?

I can't speak up for the Hassie, but the SL66 is a great camera and you can learn about bellows extension factors along the way. The front tilt is so handy and usable. I think the only downside to the SL66 is that it can be difficult to get it worked on and parts can be difficult to find. It is a complex camera and requires an expert. Jurgen Kuschnik in Germany is an expert on this camera, and could get one in top running order for you. Dead Link Removed

Hasselblad does give you a better availability of equipment and a broader selection of equipment, hence more opportunities for different future growth paths.

Steve

The Hasselblad is lighter and has a leaf shutter than can be synched at all speeds. The SL66 had only a couple of lenses with leaf shutters. It otherwise was limited to a 1/30 flash synch speed. This is what really hurt it among studio and fashion photographers. The weight and bulk of the SL66 probably was a factor, too, although I don't know that for a fact but rather from what I've read.

I've found the camera much easier to use once you mount the camera on the bracket with the cable release.

The bellows on the SL66 are an excellent feature. Plus, you can reverse the lens on the SL66 without any adapters, giving you 1:1 with the Planar, I believe.

The SL66 has depth of field preview and mirror lockup.

In 40, 50, 80, 120, 150 and 250, I believe it's the same Carl Zeiss offerings. Not sure about the lenses outside of that range.

I owned a SL66 with metered finder for many years and rarely used it. For me, it was more of a studio camera. Great for close ups, however, I prefered the F3 with DW4, choice of bellows, macro lens. Or, for larger negatives in the studio, a 4x5 view camera. Medium format, throw on a roll film back on the view.

I have always dreamed of someday having a Hassie although I know realize one can own to many cameras and not use most of them, otherwise known as GAS.

Considering everything, the Hassie can go where you go without to much thought or weight. Or, a Rolleiflex TLR. I also have a Mamiya 645 1000s w 80m F1.8 lens that I hardly have used which kinda tells me how much I really need a Hassie.

Anyway, that's my experience, yours may be different.

Hasselblad had a bellows accessory and may still have one also a shift converter and a flex body that permitted shift and tilt adjustments. How easy they are to find is another question. I have extension tubes for mine that work fine for close-up. The 50m FLE can focus to approx 0.5m.

The SL66 is really a great camera, but as you already mentioned, it is more difficult to find a good one compared to a Hasselblad. There have about 27.000 SL66 been made between 1966 and 1984. Hasselblad on the other side is said to have sold about 500.000 of the 500CM.
Lenses are rarer and ofter overpriced, but with some patience you can get a decent collection.
There are also some newer lenses available for Hasselblad that where never available for the Rollei, especially improved versions of the Distagon 50/4. The Distagon 40/4 was improved in the 80s and FLE was added, but this lens is very rare, as is the 60/3,5. I have never seen the latter for sale. The Planar 80/2,8 is every bit as good as the Hasselblad lens, as are the 150/4 and 250/5,6. There is also an F-Distagon 30/3,5 which is the same as in the Hasselblad lineup. There was also an 500/5,6 available which can be found once in a while.
Lenses were made with an older dual-layer coating between 1966 and 1973 or so and multicoating ("HFT") from 1973 on. There are some differences in opinion how much this multicoating offers a real-world improvement. Some lenses demand very high prices with HFT like the 120/5,6, which is a very good close up lens, the 40/4 and 500/5,6. For the others, prices are comparably close.
The bellows focussing is a great thing. I find it to be very convenient. Bellow factors are no big issue, because they are printed on the side arm of the camera. You just have to remember to look at the scale and correct your exposure time. I forgot this ofter when I first used the camera but as soon as you get used to it it´s very easy.
The whole camera is extremely well made and as long as it is in good working order, a joy to use. Jürgen Kuschnik has already been mentioned and I can also recommend him very highly.
One advantage of the camera is also that you have only one shutter, which is in the camera. If you buy a collection of old Hassy lenses, you might get every lens serviced individually. The SL66 has also an instant-return mirror which the Hasselblad does lack.

Best Regards, Benjamin

Thanks for the replies

jeffreyg said:

Hasselblad had a bellows accessory and may still have one also a shift converter and a flex body that permitted shift and tilt adjustments. How easy they are to find is another question. I have extension tubes for mine that work fine for close-up. The 50m FLE can focus to approx 0.5m.

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Extension tubes are doable, but it seems a lot of hassle swapping over. I suspect the bellows are going to be silly expensive, especially if they shift.

jmcd said:

I think the only downside to the SL66 is that it can be difficult to get it worked on and parts can be difficult to find. It is a complex camera and requires an expert. Jurgen Kuschnik in Germany is an expert on this camera, and could get one in top running order for you. Dead Link Removed

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I've already asked Jurgen for a quote for an SLA. The cost of a magazine CLA is certainly a concern, where as its unlikely I'd need to get this done on a hassie. (But then I don't have to service lenses)

elekm said:

The Hasselblad is lighter and has a leaf shutter than can be synched at all speeds. The SL66 had only a couple of lenses with leaf shutters. It otherwise was limited to a 1/30 flash synch speed. This is what really hurt it among studio and fashion photographers. The weight and bulk of the SL66 probably was a factor, too, although I don't know that for a fact but rather from what I've read.

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Well, the camera is more heavy, but the lenses are lighter. As long as it fits in the camera bag then I'm happy with that.
I don't use flashes very often, in a year I've used the speedlight on my F90X/FE2 once, so to me the faster shutter speed outweighs the slow sync speed.

fotch said:

I owned a SL66 with metered finder for many years and rarely used it. For me, it was more of a studio camera. Great for close ups, however, I prefered the F3 with DW4, choice of bellows, macro lens. Or, for larger negatives in the studio, a 4x5 view camera. Medium format, throw on a roll film back on the view.

Click to expand...

I have an F3 with DW3. Its just not as considered as the blad clone

A view camera falls into a completely different catagory. I can't just take that around town in my bag or hop somewhere on the train.

If the Rollei had front rise then I'd be sold.

Indeed, that would be cool...

IF you try a hasselblad for some time - then switz to Rollei for the same time, and then back again; you'd proberly (like me and my girlfriend) find the hasselblad so slow and inconvienient (sp?) to work with....

the bellows are a huge advantage!

the weight no problem (my girlfriend has the Rollei and she is small... but have no problems).

I find it interesting too, that on the Rillei, it is so easy to fit old "junk" lenses (because of the bellow).
That way, you can easily try old Petzval lenses or other ones on this beauty...

One thing that might count for Hasselblad: My girlfriend find, she's looking sexy with it (but would rather wear a Gucci bag if it came to it...;-))