Hasselbladski

Kilgallb · Mar 22, 2022

I was on eBay this evening. Under medium format cameras there are lots of Russian Kiev cameras and other knock offs for sale. The country of origin is Ukraine.

Are the Russians running a scam?

Here is an example.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/RUSSIAN-USS...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

4season · Mar 22, 2022

Seller is legit, but why a Ukrainian selling Ukrainian cameras is calling them "Russian", who knows?

AgX · Mar 22, 2022

Because before the war at this very forum typically all soviet cameras and films were called "Russian". I repeatedly corrected this, but people just did not understand.

M-88 · Mar 22, 2022

4season said:
Seller is legit, but why a Ukrainian selling Ukrainian cameras is calling them "Russian", who knows?

Because these are neither. Every pre-1991 "Russian" camera is Soviet, but it is a custom in western world to refer to virtually any FSU country as "Russia". In other words, this seller basically speaks a language, familiar to western peeps.

henryvk · Mar 22, 2022

M-88 said:
Because these are neither. Every pre-1991 "Russian" camera is Soviet, but it is a custom in western world to refer to virtually any FSU country as "Russia". In other words, this seller basically speaks a language, familiar to western peeps.

The most neutral umbrella term I can think of is "FSU". I'm not sure how people from FSU states like to refer to the individual republics but a friend of mine from Serbia refers to anything relating to the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia as "ex-Yu". Now there's a handy catch-all.

M-88 · Mar 22, 2022

henryvk said:
The most neutral umbrella term I can think of is "FSU". I'm not sure how people from FSU states like to refer to the individual republics but a friend of mine from Serbia refers to anything relating to the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia as "ex-Yu". Now there's a handy catch-all.

I am from FSU country In my country we say either Ex-Soviet, or FSU. And any former socialist republic is referred to as "former communistic", although the term is incorrect.

Tel · Mar 22, 2022

M-88 said:
I am from FSU country In my country we say either Ex-Soviet, or FSU. And any former socialist republic is referred to as "former communistic", although the term is incorrect.

Yes, the important word in FSU is "former". I admire the seller's tenacity (noting that he/she identifies the location as "Western Ukraine"). Gevorg Vartanyan (Arax) has suspended operations because of the Russian bombs, but he's in Kyiv.

Marcelo Paniagua · Mar 22, 2022

I suppose it is advertise strategy? These lots are focused on westerners and lot of west people tend to use russian/soviet in a interchangeable way, specially those old enough to remember soviet times.

AgX · Mar 22, 2022

henryvk said:
The most neutral umbrella term I can think of is "FSU". I'm not sure how people from FSU states like to refer to the individual republics but a friend of mine from Serbia refers to anything relating to the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia as "ex-Yu". Now there's a handy catch-all.

We here in Europe use these kinds of terms differently than most fellows here at Photrio. See my thread on this:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fsu-former-soviet-union.177940/

gone · Mar 22, 2022

Every review that I've read on those cameras said the same thing....... great lenses, but the bodies had serious reliability issues. So it must be a Russian camera

henryvk · Mar 22, 2022

AgX said:
We here in Europe use these kinds of terms differently than most fellows here at Photrio. See my thread on this:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fsu-former-soviet-union.177940/

I see now how FSU is technically incorrect in this context. Hmm. Personally, I'd probably call them "Soviet" anyway.

JNP · Mar 22, 2022

Tel said:
Yes, the important word in FSU is "former". I admire the seller's tenacity (noting that he/she identifies the location as "Western Ukraine"). Gevorg Vartanyan (Arax) has suspended operations because of the Russian bombs, but he's in Kyiv.

. Gevorg is also collecting donations from a link on the Araxphoto website to help him and others survive during these terrible times.

Kino · Mar 22, 2022

JNP said:
. Gevorg is also collecting donations from a link on the Araxphoto website to help him and others survive during these terrible times.

I have not been able to access this site for some time. Alternative means of donations would be great (not a Facebook page, please!).

Marcelo Paniagua · Mar 22, 2022

This is the Paypal button provided by Araxphoto

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=88EQEMYZ4P97L

Radost · Mar 22, 2022

Nobody cares who came up with Hummus. No need to have wars over it.
Also we can just call them "freedom cameras" like we did "freedom fries".
Problem solved.

Kino · Mar 22, 2022

Marcelo Paniagua said:
This is the Paypal button provided by Araxphoto

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=88EQEMYZ4P97L

thank you

xya · Mar 22, 2022

The sellers put what you search for. FSU will not be commonly used for this. So they stay with Russian and Soviet...

Cholentpot · Mar 22, 2022

From seller page

ALL SPEEDS EXCEPT "2" ARE WORKING CORRECTLY ("2" SOMETIMES WORKS CORRECTLY, SOMETIMES MAKES CURTAINS LEFT OPEN), TTL METER POSSIBLY NON-WORKING, TTL METER WAS TESTED WITH BATTERIES, BATTERIES ARE NOT INCLUDED ONE OF CASSETTE HAS NON-WORKING FRAME COUNTER (CASSETTES ARE NOT NATIVE), VERY GOOD CONDITION

CAMERA WORKING SOMETIMES. NO WORKING 2? JUST DO 1 TWICE DA?

Paul Howell · Mar 22, 2022

After market Kiev's and backs that were rebuilt in either Kiev or a firm in the Czech Republics are reputed to be reliable. Lens are sharp with good contrast, aperture control tend to hang up. With a good working shutter, flocked interior and rehabed backs Kiev makes a decent 6X6, the 1/1000th of a second top shutter speed is a pulse.

Tel · Mar 23, 2022

Gevorg understood that the Arsenal cameras (like a lot of Soviet stuff) were well designed but not so well assembled. As I undersand it, he bought many cameras and parts when the factory closed and his people cleaned them up and adjusted them to make them perform well. I had one of his Kiev 88s and another Arax-60 camera and paired them up with CZJ lenses. Great combination.

LeoniD · May 19, 2022

Tel said:
Gevorg understood that the Arsenal cameras (like a lot of Soviet stuff) were well designed but not so well assembled. As I undersand it, he bought many cameras and parts when the factory closed and his people cleaned them up and adjusted them to make them perform well. I had one of his Kiev 88s and another Arax-60 camera and paired them up with CZJ lenses. Great combination.

Not really "not so well assembled". The main problem with any soviet camera is the lubricant. And sometimes foam. Soviets just really sucked in making those, so even comparatively new camera, 20-30y.o. already has chewing gum instead of lube.
Also, the factory works to this day. I CLA'd my Kiev-60 there.

AgX · May 19, 2022

Well, a lot of western materials were as bad, including lubricants, foam rubber, rubber and rubber cement.

LeoniD · May 19, 2022

Can't say anything about that, because I never used any western materials, but soviet lubricants were really bad. ОКБ-122-7 that was used since 80s in cameras had great properties on paper, but in reality it was much more viscous than it should (higher load on parts). Stability of this lubricant is "acceptable", which, when translated from communist to English, means "we made a pile of garbage, but we also can create GOSTs, so we'll just slap the lowest acceptable numbers into the new GOST and call it a day". As the result, after 20 years (or rather 10, this lubricant has 10 years warranty) it turns into chewing gum that slowly breaks the camera

Marcelo Paniagua · May 19, 2022

Well to be truthful, I've had german and japanese cameras with the same problem (screwed lubricant) over the years, both lens and camera bodies, Even some of my Leica lens/bodies had this issue. I suppose problem is that when better lubricant where available, the rest of the world moved on and soviet stayed with the old lubricants?

Marcelo Paniagua · May 19, 2022

LeoniD said:
Not really "not so well assembled". The main problem with any soviet camera is the lubricant. And sometimes foam. Soviets just really sucked in making those, so even comparatively new camera, 20-30y.o. already has chewing gum instead of lube.
Also, the factory works to this day. I CLA'd my Kiev-60 there.

I assume that was pre war? Also, where they still doing CLA on them before that?

Marcelo

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