Hasselblade questions...

jasonjoo · May 19, 2007

I know I said that I decided on the Bronica SQ-Ai a few days ago, but upon further research, and finding it difficult to find parts for the SQ series, I've been thinking about purchasing a MF body from one of the "bigger" companies.

Since 6x6 is the format I want to be shooting in, Hasselblad seems like a good choice (the Mamiya 6 seems great, but for some reason, I REALLY want a WLF). I've read the thread about Hasselblads a few threads (maybe a page back now) and it was a great read. I just wanted to ask a few more questions. Here's my criteria:

- Looking for something very basic. Doesn't have to have a meter or "speed grip".
- Really want to shoot in 6x6 format and with a WLF.
- Cheaper the better!
- Hasselblad glass seems very expensive (even used). Are there any other third-party lens options? Image quality is always important, but I'm not TOO picky. As long as the images are sharp for the most part. Doesn't have to be the BEST per se.
- I don't plan on using a flash. I will be using the camera mainly for landscape and occasional portraits.
- Ability to change film backs would be nice (especially with different film speeds)

I know I seem picky, but I just want to do my homework before spending some cash! Thanks again guys!

Jason

Dan Henderson · May 19, 2007

-The Hasselblad 500 or 501 C or CM cameras meet your "basic" criteria.
-Meets your square format criteria (which I personally enjoy working with.)
-Hasselblad is NOT cheap. If you want cheap, stop reading and keep shopping. On the other hand, 30 to 40 year old Hassie equipment is still making great images, so factor that in.
-Hassie glass is expensive. Again, if you want cheap, go elsewhere. Quality lenses help you make good images.
-You can use flash.
-Interchangeable film backs are a real asset of the Hassie system, but also apply to many other medium format SLRs.

The musical analogy that "its the violinist, not the violin" has been applied to photography. Great images are made with less expensive cameras every day. But with a good camera system, your skill and ability to make good images is not compromised by your equipment. I personally love my Hasselblad equipment and derive great satisfaction from working with it. I paid more money for the equipment, but also bought it with the expectation that it would last the rest of my life.

gr82bart · May 19, 2007

jasonjoo said:
- Looking for something very basic. Doesn't have to have a meter or "speed grip".
- Really want to shoot in 6x6 format and with a WLF.

I've heard lots of good comments on the older 500C/M model

- Cheaper the better!

I don't know what you mean by 'cheap' but if I interpret it correctly, what you should look for is a decent used model from a reputable store. If that isn't cheap enough, I think there's a Russian knock off called a Kiev 88 or something - http://www.kievusa.com/ and http://www.kievcamera.net/

- Hasselblad glass seems very expensive (even used). Are there any other third-party lens options? Image quality is always important, but I'm not TOO picky. As long as the images are sharp for the most part. Doesn't have to be the BEST per se.

Hasselblad lenses are expensive for a reason. I think there are Russian made lenses as well that would fit the Hasselblad, but I have no clue what they are.

- I don't plan on using a flash. I will be using the camera mainly for landscape and occasional portraits.
- Ability to change film backs would be nice (especially with different film speeds)

There are lots of used Hasselblad backs out there.

FirePhoto said:
I paid more money for the equipment, but also bought it with the expectation that it would last the rest of my life.

Ditto.

Regards, Art.

mikebarger · May 19, 2007

I've run a different direction than most would advise with my Hassy gear.

I've bought a 500c body (transition body so it has interchangeable screens)
Chrome lens for 80mm 150mm and 250mm, none T* coated. I did buy a 50mm with the T* coating thinking it might make a bigger difference on a wide angle. The chrome lens are cheap.

I've bought the old 12 backs. One as low as $15 on ebay.

I looked for equipment that had seen heavy use, insisted on no scratch, haze or fungus glass.

I then sent each piece as it arrived, before using it, to David Odess for CLA.

This practice has worked well for me. I've got equipment with a fresh CLA at a much lower price than pretty stuff of Ebay that hasn't been CLA'd.

I know parts aren't being made for the old C's anymore, but David has told me there is still a pretty good supply out there.

I bought a used Brightscreen brand screen, much cheaper than the Hassy brand brightscreens.

The camera and lens were made for professional day in day out use. I DO NOT produce that amount of work, no where close.

I believe the early stuff will serve me well.

Everyone has to make the right choice for their goals and usage.

This path let me buy and use more Hassy equipment than I ever would be able to afford of the newer equipment, even with the CLA's. New stuff better, I'm sure. But I know the early stuff is better than I am, so it works for me.

2 cents worth, maybe 3 actually.

Mike

BWGirl · May 19, 2007

Well... I LOVE my Hassy, but I would have to say that "cheap" and Hasselblad are used in the same sentence about as often as "cheap" & Leica! Glass is pricey, backs are pricey, veiwfinders are pricey... but it is the ultimate piece of precision and simplicity!!

Phillip P. Dimor · May 19, 2007

I agree with the comments on the 500cm. Used prices are good right now for particular things but lenses are still high. The 80/2.8 and the 150 sonnar are the most affordable it seems.

Mike Kovacs · May 19, 2007

You might also want to check out a Rollei SL66 or SLX which are both 6x6 format shooting Zeiss lenses.

Advantages: much cheaper optics, many exactly the same as 'Blad, loyal following, repair services available

Disadvantages: older cameras, SLX is electronic and battery dependent, SL66 is mechanical but heavy, harder to find odds and ends accessories

Depends on what your needs are. For casual shooting my SL66 fits the bill and has some unique capabilities that I can use to advantage in my nature work.

jasonjoo · May 19, 2007

Dan, thanks! You summed up everything very nicely.

Thanks Art!

Mike, what is the difference between a chrome lens and a non-chrome lens? I read a thread on the T* coating as well and for the most part, some people say they cannot tell a difference with a lens with or without the coating. Also, thanks for the CLA tip!

Thanks Jeanette! Instead of "cheap" I should have said "lowest price possible"

Phillip, the 80 f2.8 seems like one of the cheaper lenses for the Hasselblad that I could see myself using often. It's about equivalent to 40mm in terms of 35mm right?

Mike, I will have to take a look at the Rollei cameras. I just don't want to be stranded when I need a repair 5, 10, 25, or however many years from now!

Thanks for all of the suggestions! I will start looking more into the Hasselblad systems.

Does anyone have a link to perhaps some information on the different types of bodies/lenses/accessories used with Hasselblads? I checked Hasselblad's website and it seems that you have to be a owner before you can access any of their information...

Tom Hoskinson · May 19, 2007

the 80 f2.8 seems like one of the cheaper lenses for the Hasselblad that I could see myself using often. It's about equivalent to 40mm in terms of 35mm right?

The diagonal of a 24mmX36mm frame is about 43mm. The diagonal of a 60mm X 60mm frame is about 85mm. A 75mm to 80mm lens is typically considered to be in the NORMAL focal length range for a 60mm X 60mm format camera.

Lenses that range in focal length from 40mm through 65mm are considered to be in the NORMAL focal length range for a 35mm camera.

The main difference between my chrome Hassleblad lenses and my black Hassleblad lenses of the same type and focal length is the color of the finish on the exterior of the lens.

jordanstarr · May 19, 2007

if i could add my 2 cents worth, i have both a hasselblad and bronica sq-a system with the 40-50-80-150 lens combo. yes, it is true that hasselblad is probably the better choice for image quality, but if you're not picky as you say, i would probably go with the bronica system. for one, the bronica system is more user friendly in my opinion. i find that it's a much smoother system to work with after using 35mm slrs for 5 years prior.

ontop of that, you can get a bronica with 3 backs, the 40, 50, 80 and 150mm lens for about 1000$ (i got my system for about $800cdn). the hasselblad 40mm lens will put you over $1000 alone. the same system in a hasselblad cost me almost $3,000 compared to $800. if cost is an issue i would definately go with the bronica. if the images you get arn't impressing the hell out of you, then you're probably using it wrong. i'm sure you'll be more than happy with it.

mikebarger · May 19, 2007

Agree with Tom on the Hassy lens question. This general statement I think is true, few Chrome lens have the red T* and few black lens don't have it.

The chrome with the T* are somewhat collectible.

The T* is more layers of coating than the non T* lens.

jasonjoo · May 19, 2007

Hey jordanstarr, I was so sure on the Bronica system, but I was finding it difficult just to find the parts that I needed to get started. I know parts aren't THAT rare and I'm sure I could snag one after searching for a bit, but I'd rather not be left in the dark in the future, whether it be in a year or 20 years from now.

Thanks for the suggestion though. I just wish the Bronica system was a bit more prevalent!

Thanks Mike!

bdial · May 19, 2007

The older style C lenses are a little harder to focus. The focus ring is smaller and the movement is stiffer than the T* lenses. But the C lenses don't command the same prices as the T*'s and I've seen some sell for pretty reasonable prices occasionally on the auction thing and some of KEH's BGN's.
For a lens you might use the most, say an 80, I'd recommend a T*, and perhaps the older C's for any other focal lengths to save some money.
Prices for everything except the lenses have gotten downright cheap, and as Art pointed out there are good reasons the lenses are pricey.
This doesn't mean you can't get superb results from the Japanese MF cameras as well. It should come down to what you find easiest to work with, and easist to afford the accessories you feel you really need.

mikebarger · May 19, 2007

Do you mean CF when you are saying T*?

Almost all of the black C lens were T* coated. The barrel and focus ring are the same on the chrome non T's and the T* black lens.

The CF lens has a wider focus ring.

Mike

TheFlyingCamera · May 19, 2007

Another difference with the C chrome lenses (and the black ones too) is the shutter in the lens is an older Compur shutter design, and if it breaks or wears out, certain parts are either expensive and hard to come by or no longer available. If you can at all afford it, I'd swing for a CF lens. You may pay more up front, but you'll probably save yourself more than you spent if/when a repair comes along (and with thirty to fifty year old shutters, a repair coming along is getting more and more likely). Same with the 500 C bodies - the newest 500C body is over 30 years old now, and many of them were USED professionally, and used hard. They are also getting to the point where certain parts, if they fail, are no longer available from Hasselblad. Spring for a 500C/M, not only for the repair issue, but also for the interchangeable focusing screens - the AcuteMatte screen is at least two stops brighter than the standard screen, which is a godsend when shooting in low light (or very bright light too, as the screen doesn't wash out as easily).

bdial · May 20, 2007

Do you mean CF when you are saying T*

Apparently, yes. I was under the impression that the T* lenses incorporated the other design changes, in addition to the T* multicoating. Thanks for setting me straight.

jasonjoo · May 20, 2007

TheFlyingCamera: is the 500 C/M the same model as the 500CM? May sound like a dumb question... but stupid is as stupid does

It seems that no matter where I shop, especially for used gear for lower prices, I may run into the same problem: expensive repairs and/or lack of parts! Hmm, this is becoming quite a bit more work then I intended.

The reason for my frugal (or stingy if you like, or cheap ) behavior is that I am not ready to commit 100% to film. I have a specific need for digital photography (sorry!), especially to document family, church, and other events and a good solution for travel (vacationing). I am willing to spend $600-800 dollars for the time being, but in order to commit fully, I would have to sell off most of my digital gear. This does not seem like an option for me at the moment.

I appreciate the help so far. I still feel like I'm in a pickle, but I'll have to do some more research to find the most cost-effective solution.

Antje · May 20, 2007

I was in the same boat (well, at least a similar one), also regarding the D-word. I hate to admit that I still do most of the money work with my Canon d***. This is where I need absolute reliability... MF is fun. That's also why, when it comes to medium format, I can easily afford having gear that might break down due to old age, and I could even wait a few weeks for a repair if parts are missing. It would hurt, but I could do it! I swear!

And that is why I bought a 500C with 150/4 C from 1969. I'm no pro, I don't need many of the features new cameras would give me. Two other C lenses followed that one, and I'm very happy with my kit. I'm aware that they might not be repairable one day , but hey, then I'll upgrade, and I'll be out of a few hundred bucks. But I've had fun with a Hasselblad kit that was assembled before my parents even met. My kit has a history, it was used by a portrait photographer, and you can see it was used hard, but cared for well. Still, the filter ring on the 150 is so worn out I always carry some tape to keep filters in place. The viewfinder loupe is a serious PITA (I'll replace the viewfinder one day, I swear). But I honestly love all my camera's quirks and bruises. And every month, I have one part serviced.

If you don't depend on your gear, I'd say you can go with an older kit.

Antje

DrPablo · May 21, 2007

Jason,
You can find some amazing deals on Hassy lenses if you're patient. The 80 f/2.8 is a great lens, a slightly wide 'normal' that's great for all around stuff, and you can get a CT* version for under $300. At KEH there is a whole selection. The 150 f/4 CT* Sonnar and 50 f/4 CT* Distagon aren't so bad either. I don't see why there's any need to buy a newer version than that, at least based on the recommendations I've gotten or what I've read. The newer lenses are exceptionally expensive, but thankfully you don't need them.

You could easily get a 500 c/m with an 80/2.8 CT* for under $600 from KEH (probably including a film back, too).

Or search Craigslist -- you're bound to find some good packages. I got mine with three lenses, filters, two film backs, flash bracket, compendium shade, extension tubes, and prism and waist level finders for about $1400 on the Boston Craigslist. There are lots of people who have gone digital who are dumping Hassys at the moment, so it actually is a buyers market right now.

jasonjoo · May 21, 2007

Thanks Doc! Always good to hear from you.

I'll have to take a look at Craigslist, though I'm always weary with dealing with people on Craigslist. More so than the internet, which is very strange of me

DrPablo · May 21, 2007

You too, Jason, we keep following each other from forum to forum!

You're in LA, you've got plenty of options on Craigslist, which is really only a great option in big cities. You should view Craigslist as a true classified ad, much different than E-bay which is more of a market based system (in a vicious Darwinian world where powerful creatures are out to get you). With Craigslist you usually get to look at the equipment in person, talk about a return policy, and avoid shipping fees. You also get better deals, because people on Craigslist tend to be too lazy to deal with E-bay or (gasp) the US Postal Service. People don't want to break items apart, so they tend to sell package deals for much less than the sum of their parts. When I looked at my Hasselblad kit that I got for $1400, it would have cost me close to $3000 if I'd pieced it all together from bargain-priced equipment on KEH. And it's not like the seller was naive -- she was a pro wedding photographer who just wanted to dump the equipment.

jasonjoo · May 22, 2007

Thanks again Doc.

I will be heading over to Craigslist after I hit the reply button!

Phillip P. Dimor · May 23, 2007

503CW in bargain condition, 80mm C lens bargain, 120 back and insert bargain, waist level finder excellent/ln for around $700/750.
KEH is awesome.

jasonjoo · May 23, 2007

Thanks Phillip.

Still looking at different options right now but that does seem like a great deal!

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