Hasselblad questions

PeteZ8 · Jul 16, 2011

So, I recently just joined the Hasselblad family. I picked up a very mint 500 C/M in chrome with the standard 80mm CF lens, WL finder, and A12 back, along with a hood, Polaroid back, and all of the original boxes. All for the princely sum of $500! It came from a widow who knew its value, but just wanted to see it go to someone who would appreciate it. Apparently I had the same name as her husband so I got picked out of the flood of Emails she had on it. Sometimes you just get lucky, right?

Anyway, despite my good fortune in acquiring the camera, I am quickly finding that I may never be able to afford anything for it! I would love to have a 40mm or 50mm wide angle, and a 120mm or 150mm for portraits. But with my budget this puts me squarely into "C" lens territory. I've heard that these are best avoided as parts are existing supply only, but is this really cause for concern? Even considering their age, how often do they really break?

And my other total newb question is, when advancing film, is the crank supposed to stop at each frame, or do I have to keep an eye on the window and stop when the white flag comes up? My first roll of Velvia 50 went rather fast when I stopped somewhere around frame 6 after the first shot Oh well! The manual is not exactly clear, but from what I read it seems there is no interlock between frames but if someone could clarify that would be awesome.

I also have learned that you need to hold the shutter release down during exposure or the blinds will close before the shutter and underexpose the film. Oops!!! Live and learn.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jul 17, 2011

You load film in an A12 by putting the film on the inset and winding it up to where the arrows on the paper match the indicator on the insert. Then you place the insert in the back and wind the little crank on the film back till it stops on frame one. It stops on one automatically, so long as you lined up the arrows on the insert before putting it together. After getting to frame one, turning the big main winder on the camera body automatically takes you to the next frame. After frame 12, use the little crank to finish winding off the paper backing before opening the back to remove the film. The body locksafter frame 12 so you cannot expose the backing paper thinking you're exposing film!

It probably stopped at frame 6 because you didn't wind up to frame one with the little crank. So, you exposed the paper leader for your first few frames!

I'd stick to CF lenses. The C lenses are getting very expensive now. For some reason, people on ebay are demanding outrageous prices on common used camera gear now, and that's influenced stores to do the same. The CF lenses are no longer that much costlier for most focal lengths. If you get the CF 50, there are two versions. The later one is the CF-FLE and is A LOT SHARPER than the regular CF 50, which is the same optical formula as the C 50. The FLE is a gigantic improvement in my experience. It costs more but like I said, prices are getting stupid on the C lenses.

PeteZ8 · Jul 17, 2011

Chris, thank you for the quick reply.

I made it to frame 6 because I was winding the film back between shots like I would with my RB-67. What a silly newb I am

I have seen several of the silver "C" lenses still going for $400~ in nice condition, less for beat up ones. I really haven't seen the "CF" lenses for much under $1k. I'll have to look around a little more. Any thoughts on 120 vs 150 for portraits?

Leigh B · Jul 17, 2011

Hi Pete, and welcome to the addiction.

Re the C lenses...
The Compur shutters are built like a tank, and will probably outlive all of us. I used to repair them, and still have a pretty good stock of parts, though nowhere near as good as Dave Odess and some other folks who still work on them. An occasional CLA (Clean Lube and Adjust) is all that's needed.

I agree with Chris regarding the 50 CF FLE lens. It's a new design as compared with the 50 C. Optically much better as I understand it, although I never owned a C. I have a complete collection of v-series lenses from 40mm through 500mm, all of which are CFs except for the 350mm.

Most of the CF lenses are optically the same as the C lenses with the T* (pronounced Tee-Star) multi-coating, so in general a C version should work as well as the more expensive CF. You'll find the characters T* in red on the front of all such lenses.

Anyhow, I hope you find the Hasselblad v-series (the 500C/M and its cousins) as enjoyable as I have over the past 40+ years.

- Leigh

segedi · Jul 17, 2011

Check out http://www.david-odess.com/sales.html as David often has lenses for sale (he has two 150mm listed now) and the have been CLAd and the shutter springs replaced. I had an 80mm lens repairs by him and bought a back as well. Super guy to work with.

I have 80mm and 150mm with my Hasselblad and haven't really found the need to get any more, and the price on the wide-angle described above is a bit out of reach. Awesome lens, but I can't justify it as 80mm in MF is wide enough for me.

Congrats on the kit and bargain. Try some Ektar and Portra in it if you have a chance.

mikebarger · Jul 17, 2011

I've never heard here on APUG of someone losing a C lens because parts couldn't be found.

Mike

film_man · Jul 17, 2011

While I would prefer to stick with CF/CB lenses, I've got a 50 and 250, both CT* simply because of price: they are so much cheaper than the equivalent newer ones (or at least I managed to get them as such). Parts? Don't know. I think that even if a shutter fails there are still many 2nd hand ones around and people can replace quite a few bits of the old shutter with parts from the new one or something like that.

According to the internets my 250 is from 1980 and my 50 from 1974 vs my 80CB which is from 1998. They all work fine, all shutter speeds on all lenses are great and the 50 actually looks like it just came out of the factory.

So I wouldn't worry too much about it for this. The only concern with C lenses is that the ergonomics are different and the focusing is (much) heavier. I don't mind this on a 50 and 250 (I do take more time with these lenses) but I don't think I could live with it on the 80 and for the 150 I'm currently looking for I'm looking for a CFi as I consider this a "faster" working lens (i.e. move around, focus, shoot vs move around, think, frame, focus, frame, think, frame, think, focus, shoot )

bdial · Jul 17, 2011

If a C lens is what you can afford, buy that and don't look back. As stated, most likely, if it gets occasional service, it will either outlast you, or last long enough that you won't care.
If you didn't get manuals, electronic versions are available here; http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/ along with a lot of other good information.

Sirius Glass · Jul 17, 2011

Wait until you have the money for the CF lenses. Almost all the CF lenses use the B60 size filters. C lenses use B50 filters. You already have a CF. If you stick to buying CF lenses you will only need one set of filters and Hasselblad filters are expensive.

There is a shortage of C lens parts. To replace a spring means that it must be taken from another lens which means the donor lens is no longer usable. You could end up buying a donor lens to repair your lens.

The CF lenses are easier to use; the C lenses look sharp but they adjust differently and some say are harder to use.

Because Hasselblad lenses are expensive, you just have to wait longer between lens purchases. That is not a bad thing because it gives you more time to be sure that that lens is the one you should buy next.

Steve

PeteZ8 · Jul 17, 2011

Thanks for all the replies. I believe it was in a thread here that someone made references to avoiding C lenses. Something about them being, and I am paraphrasing this quote, "older, less reliable, with no replacement parts and the used prices reflect that".

That's an interesting point about the fliters Sirius, but I will be picking up an inexpensive Tiffen Bay 60 adapter to 77mm thread so I can use my existing filter stock as much as possible. I've priced the Hassy filters and that was a pretty simple decision to make I guess to that end I could do the same for a lens with a Bay 50 mount and still not be in for more than a $30 investment. Of course then I loose the ability to use my plastic hood or my 50/70 shade but I can still use a rubber hood if I need one.

I've looked around a little more and it seems that if look hard enough I can pick up decent condition CF glass for not much more than C glass, so I will try and follow that route. Thank you everyone for sharing your experience

(P.S. I still feel like a dolt for winding through half a roll of Velvia hahahaha )

brucemuir · Jul 17, 2011

Sirius Glass said:
There is a shortage of C lens parts. To replace a spring means that it must be taken from another lens which means the donor lens is no longer usable. You could end up buying a donor lens to repair your lens.

Steve

The tech I use still has Compur main springs.
Odess will not work on "C" (compur shuttered lenses) the last I inquired so he probably has a limited supply of parts.

I do agree that you should stick to one or the other for filter size.

I have all "C"'s and they never have left me wanting anything.
The only way I would ever be able to get a 40mm would be in a Compur version.

chrismasonstearns · Jul 18, 2011

Pete, I've shot quite a few portraits with my 150 C lens, and it's done just fine for me, but in retrospect I wish I'd bought a CF.

I find the focus ring on the 150 C quite stiff, and the lens is susceptible to flare (a lens hood is a must, IMO). I've also heard that the PC sync post is one of the parts in short supply. I use a lot of electronic flash, so it would be nice to know that if the flash sync breaks, I won't have to buy an entirely new lens. With the C, who knows...

If I could buy over again, I'd pay a little extra for a CF, for the better design, better coating, and availability of parts.

You're going to have a ton of fun with this camera though.

brucemuir · Jul 18, 2011

brucemuir said:
Odess will not work on "C" (compur shuttered lenses) the last I inquired so he probably has a limited supply of parts.

Dave Odess just contacted me and indeed he is working on "C"'s .

I actually prefer them.
The rubber focus grip wont come off like I've heard reported for the newer Prontar.

Some people dont like the way C lenses couple the aperture and shutter speed but I it never bothered me.

PeteZ8 · Jul 18, 2011

brucemuir said:
Dave Odess just contacted me and indeed he is working on "C"'s .

I actually prefer them.
The rubber focus grip wont come off like I've heard reported for the newer Prontar.

Some people dont like the way C lenses couple the aperture and shutter speed but I it never bothered me.

Thank you for that update. How do the C lenses couple the aperture and shutter speed? What is different about the CF?

I don't ever really plan on using this camera for other than studio or landscape work so speed is of little to no concern to me. If I was really serious about shooting handheld with MF I would buy an modern autofocus, motor driven camera like a 645 AFD, which I still may do in the not so distant future. In fact that was my plan until I stumbled on this deal. I could never live with myself if I walked away from a mint Hassy for $500.

jk0592 · Jul 18, 2011

Any thoughts on 120 vs 150 for portraits?

I have the 150 T* for portraits with the 500C/M, and it is a marvelous lens that I still use regularly after more than 20 years. You would not make a mistake in acquiring such a lens.

film_man · Jul 18, 2011

PeteZ8 said:
Thank you for that update. How do the C lenses couple the aperture and shutter speed? What is different about the CF?

I don't ever really plan on using this camera for other than studio or landscape work so speed is of little to no concern to me. If I was really serious about shooting handheld with MF I would buy an modern autofocus, motor driven camera like a 645 AFD, which I still may do in the not so distant future. In fact that was my plan until I stumbled on this deal. I could never live with myself if I walked away from a mint Hassy for $500.

Your CF lens has a little tab on the aperture (or is the shutter one, don't have my camera here right now...) ring. If you push it down and twist the ring the shutter speed changes together, so they are coupled. On C lenses, it is the other way around. The rings are always coupled and if you want to twist them separately you need to hold a little tab down.

Regarding the shooting speed...I have no issues shooting with mine handheld and out and about. I put a 90 deg prism on it and it is just as good as any other camera. As for "modern autofocus", do try it beforehand, you might find that what cutting edge autofocus in medium format is today, is what 35mm cameras had in 1980.

brucemuir · Jul 18, 2011

PeteZ8 said:
Thank you for that update. How do the C lenses couple the aperture and shutter speed? What is different about the CF?

I don't ever really plan on using this camera for other than studio or landscape work so speed is of little to no concern to me. If I was really serious about shooting handheld with MF I would buy an modern autofocus, motor driven camera like a 645 AFD, which I still may do in the not so distant future. In fact that was my plan until I stumbled on this deal. I could never live with myself if I walked away from a mint Hassy for $500.

Yes Pete,
You done good.

The Compurs couple the ss/aperture with an interlock on the lens barrel.
This allows you to work in an EV based system where the values are locked and however you adjust settings you get the same EV- exposure (ie 1/30th f8 or 1/60th f/5.6 etc.). There is a silver/chrome tab that must be pressed to unlock/change EV.

Its a primitive aperture priority or shutter priority in one design.

chrismasonstearns · Jul 18, 2011

Learning to think in terms of EV has been a huge boon to me. I was never familiar with it until I came across the EV scale on the Hassy lenses (and on my Rolleicord).

If you love to shoot portraits, you may want to look into an extension tube for the 150mm too. I use a 16mm a lot.

Sirius Glass · Jul 18, 2011

Item 1 - I agree that that was a boon for me. I knew about the EV system in the 1960s, never had a camera that used it and never thought much of it. Once I started using it on the Hasselblad, I wished that it was available on my other cameras.

Item 2 - I used the 8mm on my 150mm lens for a portrait for the first time last month and I liked the advantages of it. I will try the 16mm with the 150mm lens soon.

jeffreyg · Jul 18, 2011

The extension tubes can be stacked as well. There is a chart giving the exposure compensations for each lens and the different tube combination. I have an 8, 16, 32 and 56. They come in handy especially when traveling because they are light and can be used with different lenses.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Sirius Glass · Jul 18, 2011

Lens extension ===> Follow these directions exactly:
1) Cock the camera and lens.
2) Remove the lens from the camera.
3) Put on the extension or if using more than one, put each extension on one at a time on the end of the preceding one.
4) Put on the lens.
5) Take the photographs.
6) Cock the camera and lens.
7) Remove the lens only.
8) Remove each extension one at a time.
9) When all the extensions are off the camera, make sure the lens is cocked, and then attach the lens.

If you do not do this exactly this way you can get into some real problems with the lens or the body jammed.

Steve

vpwphoto · Jul 18, 2011

Also IF the extensions have much wear... stay away from stacking them.

chrismasonstearns · Jul 18, 2011

Sirius Glass said:
If you do not do this exactly this way you can get into some real problems with the lens or the body jammed.

This is why I always keep a spare dime in my camera bag...

jk0592 · Jul 18, 2011

There exists a special tool to unjam the camera, it comes up on ebay once in a while. Otherwise, you will need an expensive repair job.

brucemuir · Jul 18, 2011

jk0592 said:
There exists a special tool to unjam the camera, it comes up on ebay once in a while. Otherwise, you will need an expensive repair job.

where's QG...

Hasselblad questions

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