Hasselblad Questions from a First-Time Medium Format Shooter

[waffles]

I recently bought my first medium-format camera, a used Hasselblad 203fe, from a guy on eBay. I paid a very good price, but I've found some issues with the system... and I'm trying to figure out whether these are (a) normal for a Hasselblad camera and I just have to get used to it, (b) possible batch/design flaws in the Hasselblad 203fe, (c) repairable damages that occurred after the camera was originally sold, and before I bought it, or (d) un-repairable damages.

First, what I do know:

1. The E12 film back that came with the camera does not positively lock on the back of the camera body when the dark slide is removed. It will attach normally, and can be removed normally, and I can run film through it without light leaks. But if I'm not careful, I can actually remove the film back from the camera body even when the dark slide is absent. This is a problem of TYPE C: Its not normal, but it is fixable. I called David Odess and he gave me a quote of $200 to fix the back. I can maybe ask the seller to reimburse me for the cost of repair as that problem was not disclosed in the auction.

2. The PME-51 that came with the camera does not have a serial number! It definitely appears to be an original Hasselblad PME. So I'm not worried about it being a counterfeit or anything. But the metal mounting plate that supposed to be engraved with the prism's serial number is blank ... suggesting to me that it was replaced at one point, and not by a factory authorized service center. This is a problem of TYPE D: It's not normal, and its not fixable. I'll either have to live with it, or negotiate with the seller to return the prism for a partial refund.

Here's what I need help figuring out:

1. When I'm using the waist-level finder that came with the camera in normal, "finder" mode, I cannot see the numbers on the light meter display because the bottom of the plastic plate that holds the magnifying lens is just barely obscuring them when in the "locked down" position. Of course, if I flip the magnifier up and use the wait-level finder in the magnified "focusing" mode, I can now read the numbers displayed by the light meter clearly. Is this normal for a 200-series body & finder? The finder doesn't appear to be damaged in any way, so my guess is that this is a design flaw in the Hasselblad system. Or perhaps a design "quirk." Its easy to work around. All I did was remove the magnifying lens & plate and now I can see the numbers easily when in "finder" mode.

2. I purchased a PM-90 at the same time that I purchase the camera, from a different seller. The idea was to sell the PME-51 for $$$$, to reimburse myself for the PM-90 and also part of the cost of the camera. But I'm having to send the PM-90 back to the seller because it does not mount securely on the camera body. Let me explain. The PME-51 is built with a thick, metal base plate. The PM-90 is built with a much thinner metal base plate. The thick plate of the PME-51 locks firmly into the spring-loaded metal balls inside the grooves on either side of the focusing screen. The thick plate also adequately depresses the tiny, brass button hidden just to the left of the light meter display that reverses the numbers so that are readable "left-to-right" through the prism. But the thin metal plate of the PM-90 does not lock well onto the camera body. It will slip right out of the grooves on top of the camera if you tilt the body without a film back installed. And worse, the metal is so thin, that even if it depresses the brass button that reverses the numbers in the meter display ... if you jiggle the camera or the prism, or if you tilt the camera body clockwise, you'll hear a tiny "ping" sound as the button slips underneath the metal base plate, and the numbers will revert to their "right-to-left" display and be unreadable through the prism. I'm 99% sure that the plate on the PM-90 is original, because it has a serial number engraved in it. But I've also seen other PM-5, PME-5, and PME-51 prisms before ... and they all came with thick metal base plates. The metal on the PM-90 is much closer in thickness to the metal that forms the lip of the waist-level finder. Again, it seems like this might be normal for a Hasselblad 203fe and Hasselblad PM-90 ... and just another one of those "quirks" I have to live with.

3. The "shutter speed dial" for the focal-plane shutter is very stiff, and you can't really feel the individual detents at each shutter speed. More concerning is that when the shutter speed is set at "1s" ... sometimes the meter displays"-b-" for bulb. But sometimes it displays "1s" as it should. Its about 50/50. But this shouldn't be possible without depressing the lens release button and rotating the shutter speed dial to "B." Then again, I suspect that this is the kind of thing that is easily fixed by sending the camera in for a factory-authorized CLA.

4. This is most concerning part to me. When I put the camera body in "pre-release" mode and remove the focusing screen from the top to inspect the mirror ... it appears that the mirror isn't 100% level. When the mirror is down it appears totally normal, but when its locked up, you can see that the "left" side of the mirror isn't as high as the "right" side of the mirror. It's only a millimeter or so of a difference, but its definitely noticeable. I've heard that the mirrors on the 200-series bodies are very fragile and easy to bend or break. But I also know this might be the kind of thing that's adjusted in a factory-authorized CLA service. Please see the picture below to understand what I'm talking about.

 

[mike c]

That foam right at the top of the ground glass is a shock absorber for the mirror and might have gone bad, had it happen to my 500 cm. Do not know much of the other stuff .

 

[Theo Sulphate]

There are too many things about that camera which don't seem proper to me. I don't have a 200-series, just 500-series, and the issues you describe are not typical of the high quality of a Hasselblad. Sorry.

 

[campy51]

Return it if you can.

 

[waffles]

Return it if you can.

Do you own a 200-series? Why do you say that? I should add to anyone else reading that the lens that came with the camera is near-mint! And all the important functions on the camera body seem to be working well. I'd really rather not return it :/

 

[campy51]

Do you own a 200-series? Why do you say that? I should add to anyone else reading that the lens that came with the camera is near-mint! And all the important functions on the camera body seem to be working well. I'd really rather not return it :/

It just sounds like you are having too many problems with it.

 

[GLS]

Sorry to hear you are having so many issues with your new camera. I'd have to agree with the others that you should consider returning it. If it was just one or two minor niggles that would be one thing, but it sounds like you have enough issues with the camera that it could easily turn into a money pit if you try to get it fully overhauled. You say you paid a very good price for the camera, and unfortunately you are now discovering why. I always treat lower-than-expected prices for photographic gear with a healthy dose of suspicion.

 

[guangong]

As a long time owner of focal plane shutter Hasselblads, first 1000F, and then the later2000 FCM,, I investigated the possibility of acquiring a 200 series so as to continue using tmy non Hasselblad lenses with Hasselblad camera. It is my understanding that besides not servicing my 1980 Hassy 2000FCM, that the 200 series focal plane shutter is also no longer serviced. A couple years ago I bought a 500 CM and C lenses.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong about 200 series repair!

 

[bdial]

That's quite a collection of problems, or possible problems, if you have the time, it may be worthwhile to have the camera evaluated by someone very familiar with them before making a return or keep decision. Otherwise returning it may be the best solution. Or else, keep it because you like the lens and send it in to Hasselblad for service, with a little luck, getting it put right may not be too expensive.

 

[itsdoable]

I use a not-quite-perfect 203fe, and have the PME51 and PM90, and also us the 2000FC/M and 501CX.

First a few questions:
- what year is your 203fe, or what is the 1st 2 letters of your serial number?
- Does your meter work when the shutter ring is on "C" mode
- does your meter button have a raised ridge around it, or does the button stick out, making it easily triggered when you put it in a caring case?
There were a number of running changes to the 203fe.

e12 back: just needs an adjustment, I have had this issue with various backs. If you push the slider button that releases the back the other way to tighten it, does that trigger the interlock (some of mine needed that)? The little spring pate that slides to block the latch when the dark slide is remove maybe sticking due to old grease - it's an easy fix (like replacing the light seals), but sending it to Odess with also give it a full C&L.

I'll have to check where my PME51 serial# is placed, but I wouldn't worry about that if it's working. These cameras were often used professionally, and the equipment was sent if for regular service, which will replace worn parts. A replacement plate would not have a serial # since it could go on any prism, and would be part of the regular service.

Your Questions.

1) My waist level finder's magnifier blocks the meter display as well when folded down. This is not really an issue, as the 203fe does not have sensors to compensate for light coming in from above into the finder that affect the reading, so you usually want to use the magnifier (which seals off the screen), and use your head to block the light to get a proper meter reading. Ideally, the meter was designed to be use with prism finders, but you can get proper reading with the waist level with care.

2) My PM90 is old, beat up (cracked plastic housing), but fits and works fine. I'll have a look tonight to see if the base plate is thinner - but I don't recall it having issues triggering the display sensor.

3) my shutter speed dial is light with distinct detentes. However, I prefer the 2000 shutter dial, which has stronger detentes, and stays put better. The shutter ring drives a gear, that drives a disc on the side of the camera with a digital swipe pattern to determine the shutter setting (the older 2000 series had individual resistors for each speed!). When this gets contaminated, or the grease on the gears gets thick, the ring can get stiff, and along with that the position of the disc may not be as precise, leading to the flickering between shutter speeds. Mine has some weird (but repeatable) behavior at 1sec and B, which may or may not be normal.

This is something I'd recommend fixing, as a stiff shutter ring can lead to premature wear on the related parts.

4) I'll have to check my 203fe this evening, but I recall the mirror did not sit perfectly level when up - although I don't recall it being as off as yours. I do not think that is an issue with the GMS mirror, they are designed to float a bit, and have a 4 point landing for a precise down position. Like Mike said, it might just be worn foam.

The trick, as always, is finding someone that will C&L a 203fe (if you don't do it yourself....)

<Edit: addendum>

My PME51 has the serial # on the base plate, but as I said, a factory replacement would not have a serial #.

My PM90 has a thinner base plate (than the 51), but that base plate has a cut-out and a crimp, which acts as a spring to hold the prism in place, once inserted, it is snug and stable.

You probably just need to give that spring a bend.

My mirror looks just like yours from above, but looks nice an even from below.

Hasselblad NJ only repairs 200 series when they have the parts. They do not have replacement data bus parts.

 

[waffles]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong about 200 series repair!

That's not true! Hasselblad-Bron still works on the 200-series camera bodies. I know David Odess does not work on 200-series camera bodies, but he *does* work on E-series film backs and FE/CFE lenses. There's also a camera shop here in Houston that works on 200-series bodies. I'm going to take it to them this afternoon and get their estimate for how much it will cost to fix. http://professionalcamerarepair.com/

 

[waffles]

They gave me a quote of $125 to fix the film back locking mechanism. So that’s two problems down ... four more to go!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

For what it's worth, the problem could be a problem with the back or with the camera. I once had a camera (500EL) that would allow any back to be dismounted with the darkslide off. My 500C had no such problems with the same backs. As for prisms, I only can talk about V-system things but I have a PM5 and its serial number is also worn off. I can only assume that they used a bad ink/bonding process for this whole gen of prisms. In my eBay flippings, I have encountered a wide range of prisms and found the mounting shoes width to be surprisingly variable. The PM5 is the thickest, almost not fitting on my 500C, followed by the NC2 and 52051, both of which are perfect, finally followed by my Kiev Spot meter prism which has a thin foot but locks in fine and cost me a whooping $50 and does a better job than any of the authentic ones.

 

[GLS]

Re: the back issue.

I'm not sure if this is indeed the problem, but it's possible that the receiving lugs on the camera are bent. This can happen from repeatedly attaching backs without first sliding the locking button to the "open" position, which puts a lot of strain on the lugs. There is a section in the camera manuals about this.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There are too many things about that camera which don't seem proper to me. I don't have a 200-series, just 500-series, and the issues you describe are not typical of the high quality of a Hasselblad. Sorry.

Return it if you can.

It just sounds like you are having too many problems with it.

Sorry to hear you are having so many issues with your new camera. I'd have to agree with the others that you should consider returning it. If it was just one or two minor niggles that would be one thing, but it sounds like you have enough issues with the camera that it could easily turn into a money pit if you try to get it fully overhauled. You say you paid a very good price for the camera, and unfortunately you are now discovering why. I always treat lower-than-expected prices for photographic gear with a healthy dose of suspicion.

There are too many problems. I strongly recommend sticking with the 500 series, there are shutter and part supply problems with the 200 series. I am a long time buyer equipment from www.keh.com. They are very conservative in their condition estimates. If you are unhappy with any purchase you can:

1. Return the purchase, no reason is necessary and get a full refund.
2. Return the purchase for an exchange.
3. Return the purchase for a repair or CLA [I did that with a Hasselblad C 500mm lens because of a shutter problem and they even checked out the lens with a light columnator.]

This policy allows these kind of solutions for up to six months after the purchase, if I remember correctly.

 

[waffles]

[QUOTE="itsdoable, post: 2187477, member: 65389"
First a few questions:
- what year is your 203fe, or what is the 1st 2 letters of your serial number?
- Does your meter work when the shutter ring is on "C" mode
- does your meter button have a raised ridge around it, or does the button stick out, making it easily triggered when you put it in a caring case?
[/QUOTE]

1. The date code on the back of the camera is "ET" ... the date code on the front of the film back is "EC"
2. The meter shows "-c-" when you half-press the shutter release in Aperture-priority mode, and it shows "Set XXX" when you press it in Manual-mode
3. I'm not sure. Here's a picture of the left side of the camera:

 

[waffles]

I'm not sure if this is indeed the problem, but it's possible that the receiving lugs on the camera are bent. This can happen from repeatedly attaching backs without first sliding the locking button to the "open" position, which puts a lot of strain on the lugs. There is a section in the camera manuals about this.

I took my camera body to Houston Camera Exchange, and we were able to attach an old, A12 back that they had for sale to the back of the camera and it "locked" in place as it should when the dark slide was removed. So I'm 99% sure its the film back.

Also, for right now ... I'd like to limit feedback to only come from those who own & use 200-series bodies. I weighed the decision between 200-series and 500-series very carefully over the last year and I don't plan on switching. If anything else is wrong with the camera that can't be fixed, then I'll either get another 203fe or possibly a 205fcc. That's it

 

[Sirius Glass]

[
1. The date code on the back of the camera is "ET" ... the date code on the front of the film back is "EC"

ET is 1996
EC is 1995

VHPICTURES

V = 1
H =2
P =3
I = 4
C = 5
T = 6
U = 7
R = 8
E = 9
S = 0​

 

[itsdoable]

1. The date code on the back of the camera is "ET" ... the date code on the front of the film back is "EC"
2. The meter shows "-c-" when you half-press the shutter release in Aperture-priority mode, and it shows "Set XXX" when you press it in Manual-mode
3. I'm not sure....

Your 203fe body is a year younger than mine, and from the 2nd year of production, but it is still the 1st series. The lack of meter readings in "C" mode, and red meter button confirms that. (it was produced for 10 years, EC to SC)

The 203fe consumes batteries, 6 month ~ 1 year depending on use (this is compared to the 2000 series, which would keep going until the batteries died of old age!). However, if that red button get pressed when the camera is sitting in a snug bag, then the battery will be dead in a few days. Later on they put a subtle plastic guard around the button, which made a difference. I glued a thin o-ring around it that does the same thing.

There is a little flap in the mirror box that helps seal out light at the back of the mirror & screen, it will break off (if it has not already). It may jam the mirror or shutter motion when it comes off. If it happens, just pull it out, and leave it out. Later version used a different material, which lasted longer.

Sounds like there is some thick grease in the film back's interlock mechanism, and in the body's shutter ring gears that you still need to take care of.

I would not discount Sirius Glass' comments just because he does not use a 200/2000 Hasselblad, he probably has more experience with 'blads than all of us together. But I do disagree with his 500 series preference, I much prefer the 200/2000 bodies (and the 1000/1600's). I like having the TTL meter, especially with the waist level finder. I also like the ability to use adapted lens (Imagon, or a P6 400mm). Back when I bought my 203fe, getting it repaired cost as much or more than a used replacement body, so service was not an issue. Everything eventually fails if you do this long enough, and when it does, you should have a backup. I also service my own camera's, so it's much less of an issue.

And that comes to my last point. Some people want a camera that is "like new" functional - I get that. With used equipment, that means it has been refurbished, or at least C&L recently. And you have to pay a premium for that. If you save a bit of $, then you get it with all it's warts, even if it is still functional, and could use a service. Some of us are fine with that too.

 

[waffles]

This is the first I've heard of there being different "series" of the 203fe. Are there just the two version? Or are there more? Were there any other changes?

The 203fe consumes batteries, 6 month ~ 1 year depending on use (this is compared to the 2000 series, which would keep going until the batteries died of old age!). However, if that red button get pressed when the camera is sitting in a snug bag, then the battery will be dead in a few days. Later on they put a subtle plastic guard around the button, which made a difference.

I know that the manual for the 203fe mentions that the red AE button will wake up the meter when you press it, but that after 16 seconds it will be "locked out" and then the only way to activate the meter is to half-press the shutter release button. I've verified that this lock-out feature works on my camera body. Won't this prevent the battery from being drained? Or I can just remove the battery holder when transporting the camera in a bag.

There is a little flap in the mirror box that helps seal out light at the back of the mirror & screen, it will break off (if it has not already). It may jam the mirror or shutter motion when it comes off. If it happens, just pull it out, and leave it out. Later version used a different material, which lasted longer.

I looked inside the mirror box and I don't see a "flap." But then again I don't know what I'm looking for. Does anyone have a picture of the mirror box of their 203fe so I can compare? Could this be what's causing the mirror to "tilt" slightly to the left when in the pre-release position??

 

[Sirius Glass]

...

I would not discount Sirius Glass' comments just because he does not use a 200/2000 Hasselblad, he probably has more experience with 'blads than all of us together. But I do disagree with his 500 series preference, I much prefer the 200/2000 bodies (and the 1000/1600's). I like having the TTL meter, especially with the waist level finder. I also like the ability to use adapted lens (Imagon, or a P6 400mm). Back when I bought my 203fe, getting it repaired cost as much or more than a used replacement body, so service was not an issue. Everything eventually fails if you do this long enough, and when it does, you should have a backup. I also service my own camera's, so it's much less of an issue.

...

My advice came from my Hasselblad repairman who advised me away from the 200/2000 Hasselblads [also the 1000/1600 other than as collector's items] because the focal plane shutters are easily damaged and parts are not available. He said if I did get one, enjoy it and keep fingers away from the shutter.

 

[itsdoable]

This is the first I've heard of there being different "series" of the 203fe. Are there just the two version? Or are there more? Were there any other changes?...

I do not recall seeing anything printed, this is from my experience. My 203FE does not meter in "C" mode. Another user's with a much later S/N does, and his red meter button is different (the differences can be seen by googling for pictures).

The meter button does turn off after 16 sec, but if you press it again, it starts up again. I (and a few others) found this gets activated when a soft shelled snug bag gets bumped, or if the canera shifts around inside a bag.

Removing the battery works, but it resets your memory - ie: ISO if you are not using a E-Back.

Flap: if you don't see it, you are fine. There's an old thread or 2 about it, one is here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hasselblad-heartbreak.128814/page-2

My advice came from my Hasselblad repairman....
He said if I did get one, enjoy it and keep fingers away from the shutter.

That's what I do - sound advice for any camera.

 

[Richard Man]

I use a 203FE, unless you got it for a very very good price, and that would be say, less than $1700 for just the body, I would return it and get one in better shape.

When in top shape, the 203FE is one of the greatest cameras out there. My other cameras are Leica M7/M9 and 4x5s and 8x10. The Hasselblad does not disappoint.

 

[waffles]

I use a 203FE, unless you got it for a very very good price, and that would be say, less than $1700 for just the body, I would return it and get one in better shape.

I paid $2,500 for the 203FE + E12 + CFE 80mm + PME-51 + WLF + Acute Matte D. I'm going to see if I can get the seller to kick back a $250 partial refund to pay for the cost of the repairs

 

[waffles]

I paid $2,500 for the 203FE + E12 + CFE 80mm + PME-51 + WLF + Acute Matte D. I'm going to see if I can get the seller to kick back a $250 partial refund to pay for the cost of the repairs

That would be a pretty good deal, right? Or should I just return it and try my hand at another 203/205? It'll be hard to find any camera that's 20 years old yet has zero problems.