Hasselblad.. It's time! Which model though?

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

I cleared some funds up and with selling a bunch of old equipment I'm FINALLY ready to buy a 'blad.

I'm looking at a 500 series body. Not sure between the 500cm, 501c, and the 501cm. I understand some of the differences. The 501cm has the gliding mirror system. Is this a major improvement? And is it worth the money?

Also, vignetting with the 501c and lenses longer than 150mm? An issue?

I would like a black body but understand the 501cm only comes in chrome. I can get over this fact though if I do decide to get this body.

Also, CF lenses are the best yet, correct?

What would you guys recommend? I will be using this camera for landscape and some architecture. I won't be using it with flash. It will be on the tripod 90% of the time.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 9, 2009

I have no vignetting issue with my 501c and a 250 CF lens.

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
I have no vignetting issue with my 501c and a 250 CF lens.

Thanks Ralph, the 250mm is the longest lens I plan to use. Good to know this won't be an issue.

dentkimterry · Oct 9, 2009

501CM's are available in black. I have one. CFi lenses are the latest lens models. CF lenses are fine and are a good value right now. 500CM just start to vignette with 150mm lenses and longer ones do. I think the gliding mirror is worth the extra cost. Go for the 501CM! For landscape and architecture I would start with a 50mm and 100mm lenses.

Terry

Venchka · Oct 9, 2009

Acute Matte Screen with split image and microprism. Must have. Don't quibble. Get one.

Screen description according to KEH:

ACUTE-MATTE D 42215 MICROPRISM/SPLIT

I am currently evaluating a 501cm with the above screen. I may the camera to get the screen. It's the brightest screen I've ever seen in a camera. The 501cm is a very competent body. Read the thread I started yesterday titled I always thought I wanted a Hasselblad. There are quite a few pearls of wisdom in there.

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

Venchka said:
Acute Matte Screen with split image and microprism. Must have. Don't quibble. Get one.

Screen description according to KEH:

ACUTE-MATTE D 42215 MICROPRISM/SPLIT

I am currently evaluating a 501cm with the above screen. I may the camera to get the screen. It's the brightest screen I've ever seen in a camera. The 501cm is a very competent body. Read the thread I started yesterday titled I always thought I wanted a Hasselblad. There are quite a few pearls of wisdom in there.

Wayne, yes I've been following your thread. The 501c also comes with the screen. I definitely want the brightest screen I can get. I guess I just narrowed it down to the 501c and 501cm.

KEH doesn't have any 501cm's in black though.

André E.C. · Oct 9, 2009

Well, IMHO, the 501C doesn't offer much from the older yet excellent 500 C/M (my camera), so get that 501 C/M with the bigger mirror has stated above.

One quick remark, the vignetting is on screen, not on negative, just to avoid confusion.

PS- You can install the Minolta made Acutte-Mate on the 500 C/M (as I did with mine).

Cheers

Sirius Glass · Oct 9, 2009

brian steinberger said:
The 501cm has the gliding mirror system. Is this a major improvement? And is it worth the money?

I have the 503 CX and it does not have the GMS [gliding mirror system]. The top of the image is slightly vignetted with the 150mm and 250mm lenses but this is not much of a problem. See the comments in:
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?Hasselblad500.html~mainFrame

Save your money.

brian steinberger said:
Also, CF lenses are the best yet, correct?

The CF lenses are easier to handle than the C lenses. This has to do with locking the shutter speed and the aperture rings when keeping the same EX exposure.

The CF lenses and some newer C lenses have the T* coatings. The C lenses have only one lens coating.

The CF lenses are newer and parts are limited for repairing a C lens. [Q. G. will dispute this.]

I have all CF lenses.

brian steinberger said:
It will be on the tripod 90% of the time.

A tripod is not needed if you use shutter speeds that are 1/[focal length] seconds or faster. I hand hold almost all my work.

Useful videos:
Loading a film back - do not wave the film around!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op6hDyMmkqA

Changing light seals:
http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HT/HTSeal.aspx

Unjamming a Hasselblad:
http://www.dmin-dmax.fr/photoe2b.htm
http://photoweb.net/pw_tech/hassy_unjam.html

Steve

Q.G. · Oct 9, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
I have no vignetting issue with my 501c and a 250 CF lens.

Then your 501 C is a 501 CM, or a major miracle, or you just don't have an issue with the vignetting that's there.

You will get viewfinder vignetting as bad as it gets (as in: will not get worse with longer lenses or more extension) with the 250 mm lens and an older mirror set up, like the one in the 501 C.

brian steinberger said:
Thanks Ralph, the 250mm is the longest lens I plan to use. Good to know this won't be an issue.

It will though, unless the camera you select is either a 503 CW or 501 CM.
With the 501 C, 500 C/M or any other 500 C(...) model, it's there in full force.

Q.G. · Oct 9, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
The CF lenses are newer and parts are limited for repairing a C lens. [Q. G. will dispute this.]

Will i???

Sirius Glass said:
The CF lenses and some newer C lenses have the T* coatings. The C lenses have only one lens coating.

However, i will certainly dispute this.

Not some, but most C lenses have the T* coating.
The earlier C lenses (also quite a few, but not most) have a T (without *) coating. Which, as far as i know, wasn't a single layer coating. Just not as intricate as the T* coating.

But more important perhaps is that single coating or multi-layer coating doesn't make a big difference at all.
Use a lens shade. That will make a big difference, even with multicoated lenses.

Sirius Glass said:
A tripod is not needed if you use shutter speeds that are 1/[focal length] seconds or faster.

And this too i'd dispute.
A tripod always (!) offers better image quality.
Sometimes you just cannot use one. And then you should not spend time fretting over that you can't, and just shoot handheld.
But whenever you can use a tripod, use a tripod. Then you will really get what you pay for.

I would say that the CFi/CFE lenses are the best.
First, for being newer = possibly less worn. And because the improvements over the CF lenses may be small, but improvements still.

CF lenses are an excellent buy though. They offer better ergonomics than the older C lenses. And are of excellent build quality (despite the use of plastics in chosen parts).
They are also less old than the C lenses, i.e. more likely to be in good condition still. Yet they still don't cost too much.
The optics themselves are largely the same as those in earlier C and later CFi lenses.

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

Q.G. said:
It will though, unless the camera you select is either a 503 CW or 501 CM.
With the 501 C, 500 C/M or any other 500 C(...) model, it's there in full force.

Just how bad is it?

RalphLambrecht · Oct 9, 2009

Q.G. said:
Then your 501 C is a 501 CM, or a major miracle, or you just don't have an issue with the vignetting that's there.

You will get viewfinder vignetting as bad as it gets (as in: will not get worse with longer lenses or more extension) with the 250 mm lens and an older mirror set up, like the one in the 501 C.

It will though, unless the camera you select is either a 503 CW or 501 CM.
With the 501 C, 500 C/M or any other 500 C(...) model, it's there in full force.

See Andre's post above.
No vignetting issue due to the 501c on the negative. But remember the inherent light fall-off due to the lens itself. Don't confuse the two!

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Sonnar5.6_250mm_CF_101115_e/$File/Sonnar5.6_250mm_CF_101115_e.pdf

RalphLambrecht · Oct 9, 2009

brian steinberger said:
Just how bad is it?

It isn't. I can scan the neg and show you. There is nothing that doesn't come from the lens itself.

Ian David · Oct 9, 2009

Get a 501CM and be done with it. Cut back on the beers, smokes and cable TV for a few weeks to fund the small extra cost.

Ian

Q.G. · Oct 9, 2009

brian steinberger said:
Just how bad is it?

I thought i might find an image of it somewhere on the web, but can't.
So in words: it is a strip of about about 1 cm along the top of the frame, slightly curved, so a bit more on the left and right edge.

You quickly get used to seeing it. But adjusting to it, so that you do not compose using the visible part of the image only (producing well composed images, but with too much room on top) will take some time and determination.

I switch between cameras with and without a non-vignetting mirror a lot, without any problem, but occasionaly still find i fell into the compose-too-low trap.

Sirius Glass · Oct 9, 2009

brian steinberger said:
Just how bad is it?

Just a small band at the top of the viewfinder. It does not affect the photograph itself. The first few times one notices it. After a while, it is not noticed [again, because it is only a thin line.]

Steve

Q.G. · Oct 9, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
See Andre's post above.
No vignetting issue due to the 501c on the negative. But remember the inherent light fall-off due to the lens itself. Don't confuse the two!

I don't.

But we're talking vignetting mirrors, so obviously an issue only in the viewfinder.
And there your 501 C vignets like the best of them.

Don't confuse that with lens vignetting.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 9, 2009

Q.G. said:
I don't.

But we're talking vignetting mirrors, so obviously an issue only in the viewfinder.
And there your 501 C vignets like the best of them.

Don't confuse that with lens vignetting.

I don't. I think the post were pretty clear on that. No vignetting on the negative!

Q.G. · Oct 9, 2009

What a silly game...

"The 501cm has the gliding mirror system. Is this a major improvement? And is it worth the money?"

"No vignetting on the negative!"

...

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

iandavid said:
Get a 501CM and be done with it. Cut back on the beers, smokes and cable TV for a few weeks to fund the small extra cost.

Ian

Not sure I can give up the suds...

I'm just looking to purchase the right body. Vignetting in the viewfinder is not going to bother me. I'd get used to it.

The thing is, I have some credit at KEH and plan to buy from them. They have a very nice black 501c which I was planning on purchasing coming into this thread. I appreciate the comments.

JLP · Oct 9, 2009

Brian, Don't forget the 503CW. Great camera.

John R. · Oct 9, 2009

If you would be pleased with the 501C then that is what you should get. Any of these bodies mentioned are terrific. I use 500 C/M's and a 553 ELX. The 553 has the gliding mirror system and the C/M's don't. It has never made any difference to me. Like others point out the slight vignette is easy to live with and becomes a non-issue in short order for general shooting. If however, a person had to do critical compositions for documentary purposes or scientific needs then it would probably be an issue, at least I think it would be. All I can attest to as a user is that in general work, it should pose you no problems. Go for the 501C if that is what you want. Don't forget, you can always send it back to KEH if you are not satisfied and exchange toward a different body.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 10, 2009

brian steinberger said:
Not sure I can give up the suds...

I'm just looking to purchase the right body. Vignetting in the viewfinder is not going to bother me. I'd get used to it.

The thing is, I have some credit at KEH and plan to buy from them. They have a very nice black 501c which I was planning on purchasing coming into this thread. I appreciate the comments.

Go for it. You won't be sorry.

brian steinberger · Oct 10, 2009

Do you guys think it would be worth it to wait for a nice 501cm to come up on KEH? Or just go with the 501c?

John R. · Oct 10, 2009

You will have a better chance of obtaining a black 501c rather than a 501cm just because the production on the black 501cm's were produced during a shorter period. The only big difference is if you want the GMS mirror system, as a few of us said before the 501c does not have the GMS and we gave our opinions on that. If you buy a 501cm kit (body & back) it should have an A12 back with the dark slide holder on it. If it's not the original back for the camera it may not have the holder. The kit 501cm came with the A12 with the holder.

Hasselblad.. It's time! Which model though?

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