Hasselblad focusing issues and a weird repair experience

[Busker]

So I bought a Hasselblad 503cx kit in July, and after shooting a few rolls with it I realised I was missing focus a bunch. I chalked it down to me not being super comfortable with the focus screen included (acute matte non d, I think), so I bought a new focus screen from Hasselblad, the Acute Matte D Focusing Screen made for the CFV-50c digital backs (link to B&H for example).

The new screen arrives and I can immediately see that this wasn't an improvement. I couldn't focus to infinity!

My next course of option was to have it serviced. Seeing as I'm in Norway there aren't too many repairmen available locally, but there is one with a good reputation who had experience with Hasselblad, and was willing to give it a go to adjust focus. After a few days I get an email from him saying that he removed the adjustment screws from the body (the bed where the focus screen is placed), but even after this he wasn't able to get correct focus. He suggested we sand down the metal frame of the focus screen until focus was correct.

This seemed somewhat strange to me, but I figured perhaps the focusing screen made for the CFV 50c digital backs could perhaps be made for a different flange distance or something, so I gave him a thumbs up and to go for it.

I picked up the camera yesterday and the focus seems fine when looking through the viewfinder, that is, it focuses to infinity, but before I actually see the results on my film I can't really know what they are. I'm still rather perplexed by the whole ordeal,.

My question to you guys is, naturally: does this sound strange to you all?

 

[Deleted member 88956]

New screen's description clearly states it is meant for both, digital and film shooting (would have been strange otherwise anyways).

What's perplexing is how someone who claims to have Hasselblad repair knowledge suggests a butchering solution on a brand new original screen. Since you gave him a green light for this, nothing can be done to get him cover the cost of new screen. Perhaps yo can remount new screen in old frame (old Hass screens are cheap and frames are just as good.

As for focusing issues, I've seen this popping up here and there, but as not generally accepted known issue with 500 cameras.

 

[Busker]

Thanks VTLD. This was my impression as well, and I even spoke to Hasselblad who said I could use the new screen for my V series camera with a film back.

I clearly gave the repairman a green light, so the cost, burden and responsibility is on me. I don't have any ill feelings towards the repairman either: if all you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail, and if the solution works (TBD) I guess I should be happy with it...

But of course I won't be happy, even if it turns out to be working fine. There has to be a way to adjust focus on Hasselblad 503cx cameras that doesn't involve filing down focusing screens. I've read about adjusting mirror angles and such, but my repairman said this wasn't the way to go about it, and that the mirror angle was to spec.

Does anyone have any advice as to where I can send my camera to have it adjusted to focus, using more conventional methods?

 

[250swb]

Something smells fishy to me. I could imagine having to shim a screen to get proper focus as a way for the manufacturer to accommodate tolerances, but it's crazy to think Hasselblad intend for parts to be sanded down.

 

[Busker]

Something smells fishy to me. I could imagine having to shim a screen to get proper focus as a way for the manufacturer to accommodate tolerances, but it's crazy to think Hasselblad intend for parts to be sanded down.

I completely agree. I keep kicking myself in the leg for accepting the proposition in the first place. I was out with a cold and fever, and figured he knew what he was doing after he dismissed my idea about mirror angle or worn out dampening pads (turns out there aren't any). I guess there are many ways to Rome, but I honestly prefer the straight one.

I shall develop a test roll today, hopefully I'll know if his solution actually worked

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Is there any chance your earlier screen was mounted upside down in camera? It would certainly throw focus off at film plane. You now, it's supposed to be frosted side down towards mirror.

 

[Slixtiesix]

Sounds weird. All screens for the V-System can be used on this body regardless whether digital or not, because film backs and digital backs have the same flange distance. Unless you really mounted the screen upside down (which is something I assume the repairman should have noticed immediately), I could also imagine that the mirror was out of adjustment (also a point the repairman should have checked first), or your body had been dropped by the previous owner. I read it several times that dropping a Hasselblad body, even when leaving no visible outer signs, may get the body out of calibration.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

To my personal experience, there are two reasons why a Hasselblad isn't focussing correctly, wether it is with a film cassis or a digital back.
First is putting the focussing screen upside down (yes I have seen it happening) and, secondly, the angle of the mirror being out of adjustment (reflecting angle).
The second reason is rather common with the 500C and the 500CM (it happend to mine), but I never heard of it happening to a 503 body which has the 'gliding mirror system', but you never know.

All Hasselblad V accessoires are made to fit flawlessly any of the V system cameras, even in conjunction with a digital back like the CFV 50c which is particularly dedicated to that system.
Why, coming from Hasselblad, would it be otherwise?

I guess that something else than a focussing screen issue is going on here, does it occurs with other lenses?

 

[Busker]

Is there any chance your earlier screen was mounted upside down in camera? It would certainly throw focus off at film plane. You now, it's supposed to be frosted side down towards mirror.

Good suggestion, but I checked this before buying a new one. It'd be happy if that was the sole reason

Sounds weird. All screens for the V-System can be used on this body regardless whether digital or not, because film backs and digital backs have the same flange distance. Unless you really mounted the screen upside down (which is something I assume the repairman should have noticed immediately), I could also imagine that the mirror was out of adjustment (also a point the repairman should have checked first), or your body had been dropped by the previous owner. I read it several times that dropping a Hasselblad body, even when leaving no visible outer signs, may get the body out of calibration.

Thanks for the input. Yes, I agree, it makes sense that they should have the same flange distance, but when something strange is going on one easily finds oneself grasping for potential causes. The repairman did not want to adjust the mirror, he said a mirror should be in a standard position of 45 degrees (or similar, I don't remember the quote verbatim), which he checked, and that one should never deviate from that.

 

[Busker]

To my personal experience, there are two reasons why a Hasselblad isn't focussing correctly, wether it is with a film cassis or a digital back.
First is putting the focussing screen upside down (yes I have seen it happening) and, secondly, the angle of the mirror being out of adjustment (reflecting angle).
The second reason is rather common with the 500C and the 500CM (it happend to mine), but I never heard of it happening to a 503 body which has the 'gliding mirror system', but you never know.

All Hasselblad V accessoires are made to fit flawlessly any of the V system cameras, even in conjunction with a digital back like the CFV 50c which is particularly dedicated to that system.
Why, coming from Hasselblad, would it be otherwise?

I guess that something else than a focussing screen issue is going on here, does it occurs with other lenses?

Thanks! Yes it makes total sense that it should all be interchangeable.

Hmm, do you think it could be a lens issue too? I haven't tested extensively with other lenses, but I do seem to remember the repairman checking with another 80 when I first delivered the camera + lens to him, and that the focus was visibly off with his lens as well.

I have sent an email to David Odess in the US to see if he might be willing to take this problem on.

To be honest I'm pretty fed up with this whole Hasselblad experience. So far, this camera has been giving me nothing but trouble since I bought it! I would have less worry and more money in my life if I'd just stuck to my Bronica SQ-A instead of jumping down yet another rabbit hole. Shutter sounds better, though

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Nothing wrong with trying something else. I can't shoot with one camera for long as it gets boring too quickly. But we are all different.

 

[John Will]

It is possible that the body is out of alignment. Could happen if the body has been dropped or knocked some time in the past. Hasselblad made an alignment jig that most Hasselblad service people would have and it is a simple task to get the body back in alignment. There should be no reason to file the screen to achieve focus. I know because my 500c/m had a similar focus problem a few years ago and the local Hasselblad service agent realigned the body and all was well.

 

[grain elevator]

I had a similar issue with an entirely different camera (Minolta XD-7). I was able to correct it by shimming the lens mount. Not assymmetrically like you'd expect after damage from being dropped or some such. So my only explanation is that there must have been shims from the factory that were lost in some previous repair.
In your case, as you couldn't reach infinity, it sounds like the lens would need to come closer to the body though. Maybe there are shims there that shouldn't be there? Or the lens is out of spec, but I'd expect a repair person to check that right after the orientation of the focusing screen.
In any case, do your film tests, also to see if the focus scale and infinity stop on the lens are close enough, and test with another lens or ask the repairan if he did! And be happy if everything works out.

 

[Busker]

Nothing wrong with trying something else. I can't shoot with one camera for long as it gets boring too quickly. But we are all different.

Haha, yeah no I agree, I'm the same. I've bought countless cameras throughout the years, but this was the first time I got burned. It was bound to happen sooner or later I suppose

It is possible that the body is out of alignment. Could happen if the body has been dropped or knocked some time in the past. Hasselblad made an alignment jig that most Hasselblad service people would have and it is a simple task to get the body back in alignment. There should be no reason to file the screen to achieve focus. I know because my 500c/m had a similar focus problem a few years ago and the local Hasselblad service agent realigned the body and all was well.

Aha! Yes it might have been dropped at some point, prior to my ownership... Obviously my serviceman does not have said jig. Ii'm also fairly certain this isn't something I'll be able to repair on my own, so I've emailed Mr. Odess as well as Hasselblad customer support to enquire about a potential repair, though I do not have high hopes for the latter.

I had a similar issue with an entirely different camera (Minolta XD-7). I was able to correct it by shimming the lens mount. Not assymmetrically like you'd expect after damage from being dropped or some such. So my only explanation is that there must have been shims from the factory that were lost in some previous repair.
In your case, as you couldn't reach infinity, it sounds like the lens would need to come closer to the body though. Maybe there are shims there that shouldn't be there? Or the lens is out of spec, but I'd expect a repair person to check that right after the orientation of the focusing screen.
In any case, do your film tests, also to see if the focus scale and infinity stop on the lens are close enough, and test with another lens or ask the repairan if he did! And be happy if everything works out.

Thanks for your input! I have no idea about whether or not there are any shims in the lens mount... If there were, I don't think I'd be able to figure it out on my own.

I'm gonna go develop yesterdays test roll now, hopefully I'll find out if my repairman's mystery hack actually worked.

 

[calico]

I suggest you send the camera to Hasselblad in Sweden.

That is closer to you than David Odess in US (whom you mentioned) and would be the gold standard for repair work on Hasselblad.

I'm in the US but had to have a Hassy lens sent to Hasselblad Sweden because there were no technicians at Hasselblad USA who could work on it.

 

[Busker]

I suggest you send the camera to Hasselblad in Sweden.

That is closer to you than David Odess in US (whom you mentioned) and would be the gold standard for repair work on Hasselblad.

I'm in the US but had to have a Hassy lens sent to Hasselblad Sweden because there were no technicians at Hasselblad USA who could work on it.

Yes if they are willing to take it I'll send it to them, but I'm not sure they are. We'll see what they say!

I've also contacted Kamerastore in Finland to inquire wether or not they'll take it on. They are pretty advanced and tackles stuff like this all the time, but they might not want to take on something aren't gonna fix up and sell in the store.

 

[calico]

Yes if they are willing to take it I'll send it to them, but I'm not sure they are. We'll see what they say!

I've also contacted Kamerastore in Finland to inquire wether or not they'll take it on. They are pretty advanced and tackles stuff like this all the time, but they might not want to take on something aren't gonna fix up and sell in the store.

I don't know why Hasselblad in Sweden wouldn't accept your camera for repair.

Let us know what they say. Good luck.

 

[itsdoable]

I've never had to file the body to get alignment, something else is probably off.

... rather common with the 500C and the 500CM (it happened to mine), but I never heard of it happening to a 503 body which has the 'gliding mirror system', but you never know....

The 503cx does not have the GMS, it has a slightly modified version of the cm mirrors, and use foam pads to locate the mirror. It is prone to the same issue as the C/CM, but as they are younger, the foam pads are usually not as old and deteriorated. Most people versed with servicing a Hasselblad should know to check the mirror pads if it is front focusing.
Only the 503CW & CWD had the GSM.

The good news is that you can always shim the focus screen back up to where it should be once the actual fault is determined and fixed.

 

[Busker]

I don't know why Hasselblad in Sweden wouldn't accept your camera for repair.

Let us know what they say. Good luck.

Ah, I wasn't sure if they still serviced V series cameras, but if they do that's that might be the best option. Thanks for the well wishes!

I've never had to file the body to get alignment, something else is probably off.

The 503cx does not have the GMS, it has a slightly modified version of the cm mirrors, and use foam pads to locate the mirror. It is prone to the same issue as the C/CM, but as they are younger, the foam pads are usually not as old and deteriorated. Most people versed with servicing a Hasselblad should know to check the mirror pads if it is front focusing.
Only the 503CW & CWD had the GSM.

The good news is that you can always shim the focus screen back up to where it should be once the actual fault is determined and fixed.

Thanks for the info! I might have been unclear in my initial post, but just to be clear it was the metal frame of the mirror that was filed down, not the camera body. Luckily!

Great info regarding the foam pads, I did not know that! That's good to know, that's something that sounds fairly easily fixable. Also, good idea about shimming the focus screen, I actually didn't think of that. I was thinking it might be possible to buy an old focus screen from eBay and use it's frame somehow, but I'm not sure how easily the screen detaches. Never the less, my old acute matte screen is fairly bright on it's own, so I wouldn't be too sad to go back to that

 

[mshchem]

Send it to Hasselblad, hopefully they can use the altered screen. You may need another screen. .

 

[jeffreyg]

Are you sure it is the screen? Which viewfinder are you using and have you tried more than one lens? They made different diopter eyepieces and it's possible that the one on the viewfinder is not compatible with your vision also if the lens had been dropped rather than the camera an element may be off slightly. It seems that all of the "pieces" should be checked separately on a well functioning camera to eliminate which is off before an invasive repair is tried.

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[calico]

Ah, I wasn't sure if they still serviced V series cameras, but if they do that's that might be the best option. Thanks for the well wishes!

They do. Hasselblad USA told me they would send my 201F there if it needed repair. (Just fyi, 200 and 500 series both V series cameras.)

 

[250swb]

I think this is a component issue and not a case of 'send it for a service', it should be possible to determine the cause from what you had and what you got. And look where a camera tech got you, sanding down metal!

 

[Busker]

Are you sure it is the screen? Which viewfinder are you using and have you tried more than one lens? They made different diopter eyepieces and it's possible that the one on the viewfinder is not compatible with your vision also if the lens had been dropped rather than the camera an element may be off slightly. It seems that all of the "pieces" should be checked separately on a well functioning camera to eliminate which is off before an invasive repair is tried.

I'm not sure about anything, but several lenses have been tried, yes. I don't know which viewfinder I'm using, but the problem is the same using either the viewfinder or the pm5 prism. The body was definitely not focusing correctly.

They do. Hasselblad USA told me they would send my 201F there if it needed repair. (Just fyi, 200 and 500 series both V series cameras.)

Great! Fingers crossed then!

I think this is a component issue and not a case of 'send it for a service', it should be possible to determine the cause from what you had and what you got. And look where a camera tech got you, sanding down metal!

Ah yes... But even if I managed to figure out what was wrong on my own, I would still have to have it corrected somehow.

Anyway, I just scanned the test roll I shot yesterday, post butchering by my local serviceman. However unconventional his solution, the focus is at least spot on, both on infinity and on short distances at f/2.8.

 

[drmoss_ca]

Proof of the pudding....