Hasselblad Birthday Present

JRoosa · Nov 7, 2014

I have a birthday coming up ending in zero again.

I'm thinking of treating myself to a Hasselblad, and I wondering which one I want. I've always wanted one, and 6x6 the largest format my current enlarger can handle. Sorry, Intrepid Camera, but 4x5 will have to wait.

It will be used almost exclusively outside (flash doesn't matter), mostly landscape, mostly off a tripod, and mostly B&W.

Chrome vs black isn't really something you all need to worry about, but I'm leaning towards chrome since the black ones sell at a premium for what seems to be no good reason other than that they look cooler.

Is there a model in the 500 series that I should be gravitating towards? The TTL flash feature isn't an issue. Gliding mirror sounds intriguing, but I don't know why. I don't know if I would ever change a focusing screen. A metered prism might be helpful someday, but waist level is fine for me, and that seems to be body independent. I guess newer is somewhat better from a wear perspective, but do these things ever really wear out?

I'm OK with a normal lens to start. I like my normal lenses best on my 35mm cameras. What the heck does C, CB, and CF mean for lens designations for the 80mm?

As for the A12 backs...anything there that matters from a practical standpoint?

Suggestions?

Thanks for the feedback.

-J.

Slixtiesix · Nov 7, 2014

If you want the latest model with all the benefits (Acute Matte D Screen and gliding mirror) I would recommend: 501CM or 555ELD or 553ELX version II.
I would not recommend the 503CW because you said you won´t need TTL flash nor I think you would need a winder. The motorized models are indeed the best for the money, but the motor and batteries do add weight which can be an issue for traveling longer distances. However, if only equipped with the standard lens, they are not too heavy yet and still compact.
You can also choose a 500CM but as APUGuser19 said, make sure that it is in good shape. The 500CM was sold for a very long time and there were different versions with small changes. The newer the better. There were also a 500 Classic and a 501C, which do not differ much from the 500CM. Regarding the backs: just make sure it is in decent shape, no light leaks, and insert and housing should have the same serial number.

Regarding lenses: C lenses are the oldest. Compur shutter. Optically, they are good but the shutters are old. Better be prepared to have them serviced sooner or later or buy a lens that has already been serviced. CF lenses were made from 1982 to 1998. They offer the best for the money. CFi lenses were made from 1998 onwards. Only minor difference. Better ergonomics, more modern look, some parts in the shutter were made more durable, especially the main spring (this is not to say the CF lenses were not reliable!). Also available as CFE with electronic contacts, but these you wont need. Optically, most lenses have stayed the same over the years. CB lenses were a budget version introduced in 1997. The Planar 80mm CB has the same ergonomics as the CFi lenses, but it has one lens element less than the 80mm CF or CFi lens. There is no final wisdom on whether it is really worse because of this, but if you stop down to f8 I don´t think it can be a bad lens. There is also a 100/3,5 lens which has slightly more resolution than the 80mm lenses and almost no distortion. Many people prefer this for landscape and architecture, but it costs a lot more.

Anyway: My recommendation for landscape off tripod work would be a TLR! But if you want a Hasselblad, I would recommend one of the models mentioned above and a 80/2,8 CF lens, or 80/2,8 CB lens or CFE or CFi lens. Even better: 100mm + 50/4FLE! It depends on how much you want to spend...

film_man · Nov 7, 2014

There is no such thing as a 503 ELX.

I have bought two 501CM and a 500ELX in the last few years. First of all, decide if you want a manual or electric body. By electric I mean the EL series with the winder, not that there is anything else electric about them. They are heavier and bulkier but I find them better handling when used with a prism. If you don't care about a prism stick to the plain (no winder) series.

I would avoid the original 500C and 500EL, the screen is fixed and dimmer compared to the newer ones. Personally I really like the Acute Matte D screen I have, it is the brightest and very easy to focus, just a plain screen.

In between them the non-winder bodies are pretty much the same. The gliding mirror is only useful if you use long lenses. The flash TTL stuff, who cares anyway, just shoot manual flash otherwise you'll end up looking for expensive cables and adapters to basically little over auto-flash.

So...to talk actual models I would skip the 503CW as that is very expensive. The 501CM is the newest you get without breaking the bank and it has the gliding mirror. The 503CXi is like a 503CX but takes a winder. The 503CX is like a 501CM without the gliding mirror.

Essentially they are all the same, unless you really want flash or the gliding mirror I would go for either a 500CM, 503CX, 503CXi, 501CM or 501C based on price and condition. The one thing that would sway me more is the screen, the Acute Matte D ones are hard to find and are a good $200 or more each.

If you do go for an EL body, they are all pretty much the same from the ELM up, the main difference is the batteries, the 500ELM and 500ELX use the NiCad batteries. No worries though, when I had the 500ELM I bought a 2CRP adapter for £20 and could then use normal 2CRP batteries. They'd last forever.

Also, check this out: http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HS/HSTable.aspx

film_man · Nov 7, 2014

Forgot to say, for lenses, I'd look for a lens with a T* coating, that is all CF, CFi, CFE and CB plus black C lenses marked as such (they have a red T* stamped at the front). Chrome C lenses do not have the coating but more importantly since they were the first lenses made they are now getting really really old.

The CFi/CFE/CB lenses are the newest but are the same optically as CF (if you are being pedantic the 80CB is not and is apparently worse but I have one and it is amazingly sharp) but with new style barrels and rings so they are a tiny bit easier to operate and will have lighter focusing. The CF are optically the same as C T* lenses but have rubber on the focus ring and the aperture/shutter speed rings are not coupled. The C lenses are all metal, are heavy to focus, can act as a doorstop but the main difference is that the aperture/shutter ring is coupled, ie if you change one you change the other (so your exposure is constant). To change them separately you have to push one ring and then turn it. So it is the opposite of anything newer, where you have a button to push if you want both rings to rotate to keep exposure the same.

Prices vary a lot, C will be cheapest, CFi/CFE most expensive. I would buy on condition & price, the only consideration is C T* vs everything else, purely on ergonomics. I would not buy a plain C lenses.

Backs, make sure you don't get one with the peephole (think they aren't called A12 anyway). The only difference between an old A12 and a new A12 is that the newest ones have a slot to put the darkslide in.

Slixtiesix · Nov 7, 2014

I would also consider buying a kit. You can end significantly cheaper that way. Best have a look on KEH and Ebay for a while to get an impression about sensible prices.

Douglas Fairbank · Nov 7, 2014

I have what may be bad news for you APUGuser19, even the ELX bodies have a foam pad at the rear of the mirror and this can also fail causing mirror alignment problems. Models 2000, 200, CW and 501C do not have mirror foam cushions but what I am saying is the choice of camera model should be made for this reason only. The good news is that the foam pads are very easy and cheap to replace. When I do a service (CLA) for a client the parts cost a few GBP and add nothing to the cost of a labour, if the client only wants the mirror pads changed the charge is 20-40GBP and the cost of the parts. I can assure you that Hasselblad is not the only camera in the world that uses foam for cushions/lightproofing.

canuhead · Nov 7, 2014

Have a 500 C/M and 503Cx and love them both.

BrianShaw · Nov 7, 2014

JRoosa said:
I have a birthday coming up ending in zero again.

I'm thinking of treating myself to a Hasselblad, and I wondering which one I want.
...

I did that once, and my b'day didn't even end with a "0".

Whichever you get just make sure that it is either in good, reliable condition or you are willign to have it overhauled to be in good, reliable condition. I opted to spend a little more and get the latest version. I have never regretted that decision when reading about folks who saved a few bucks (sometimes a substantial number of bucks) getting older gear and have problems.

One piece of advise that I wish I had taken back in the day was to get a copy of Wildi's Hasselblad Manual to get educated first. The 5th edition is the last edition that was solely film cameras, up to 501CM etc.; after that the digitals were included and I don't know if they retained all of the old material or not.

BrianShaw · Nov 7, 2014

p.s. Somebody mentioned 503C? and flash. 503C? is required if you need/desire TTL flash. I use flash on 501CM very effectively but using sensor on the flash unit. Sometimes I wish I had gone that route, but not very often.

jspillane · Nov 7, 2014

Gliding mirror will have no effect if you are using lenses 120mm<. I have an earlier model and honestly, even using the 250mm (longest lens I own), it isn't much of a problem for me.

Based on your requirements, I would primarily look at the 500c/m. If you find a great deal on a good condition 500c and don't plan to change the focusing screening, they are basically the same camera but without a user changeable screen (it can still be done by a technician).

For the most part, the lens types (C, CT*, CF, CFi, CB) are optically identical, but their casings and ergonomics are quite different. There are exceptions to this (the late 50mm FLE and 40mm FLE, and the 80mm CB). Most people will tell you to get the newest lens possible, and most people seem to prefer the ergonomics of the CF and later lenses (which allow you to change shutter speed and aperture independently without pressing down a tab- C and CT* lenses prioritize the EV system and lock the shutter speed and aperture together). The 80mm CB has one fewer element and is supposedly optically inferior to the other 80mm Planar designs. Personally, my preference is for C and CT* lenses because they are cheaper, I use the EV system so the locking doesn't bother me, and I prefer the way they look and feel on the camera. They also tend to be physically a little smaller.

Have fun. They are great cameras and fantastically satisfying to use.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 7, 2014

question like these only invite people to tell you that you should get what they have (owner's pride I guess)So,here it goes. I like my Hasselblsd 501candgot only CF-series lenses.as a base set of focal lengths,I would go for 50,80and 150mm. they are cool cameras and you will fall in love with the system.So, get ready for the poor house.

Mark_S · Nov 7, 2014

I shoot mostly 4x5 and have the hasselblad for when I want to shoot handheld. Like you, I mostly shoot with natural light. I had a 501CM body, with older C series lenses. I wanted to upgrade the lenses and a kit came up at a reasonable price on craigslist locally - the kit included 80 and 150mm CF lenses (I already had the 50mm ) so that was my primary interest. I bought the kit for what I considered a reasonable price for the two lenses and it came with other goodies - a 503CX body, and a flash. I sold the 501CM body and C series lenses to help pay for the upgrade.

I am quite happy with this kit. The range of 50mm, 80mm 150mm lenses seems about right to me. By having all CF lenses, one set of filters works across all lenses. I have a prism finder with a meter in it which I use sometimes, although perhaps from the 4x5 experience, I find that the WLF and a spotmeter are used more often for landscape. I have been happy with the images, and the negative size is fine for prints up to 20x24. Others have talked about different bodies, and for me, the either the 501CM or the 503CX seemed to work fine - they are smaller and lighter than the ones with batteries.

Be warned that although you can get Hassy gear much more reasonably today than you could 20 years ago, it is still not cheap. Expect to spend as much on a CLA for a lens as what you would pay for a top of the line used 35mm camera.

JRoosa · Nov 7, 2014

Wow, that was very helpful.

I don't need to pinch pennies enough to go for the electric winder, it's worth it to have a little less bulk and weight.

Definitely there will be more lenses in the mix at some point.

It sounds like the gliding mirror issue isn't huge, but if prices are similar wouldn't be harmful.

I'll have to keep my eyes open now to get an idea on prices.

Any comments on chrome vs black?

-J.

BrianShaw · Nov 7, 2014

I always thought chrome looked much nicer than black... and still think so.

cliveh · Nov 7, 2014

500C and stick to basics.

Sirius Glass · Nov 7, 2014

503CX or later. The lack of a gliding mirror is no big thing and does not bother me.

CF lenses or later. I like 38mm [903 SWC], 50mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses with the alternative of 38mm [903 SWC], 50mm, 100mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses

Go Hasselblad and you will never look back. Enjoy!

Slixtiesix · Nov 7, 2014

Chrome or black all depends on taste. However, black paint is more susceptible to paint wear. Chrom is not, just because there is no paint that can be worn off.

Sirius Glass · Nov 7, 2014

I like chrome better because the black shows wear on the corners and edges.

Colonel Blimp · Nov 7, 2014

RalphLambrecht said:
question like these only invite people to tell you that you should get what they have (owner's pride I guess)So,here it goes. I like my Hasselblsd 501candgot only CF-series lenses.as a base set of focal lengths,I would go for 50,80and 150mm. they are cool cameras and you will fall in love with the system.So, get ready for the poor house.

I guess that is exactly the nature, and why not the purpose, of an internet forum with thousands of members.

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 20, 2014

6x6 is a bit restrictive for landscape work, though some specialists have made it work and work well.

Sirius Glass · Nov 20, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
6x6 is a bit restrictive for landscape work, though some specialists have made it work and work well.

How can 6x6 be restrictive for landscape work? Or for that matter any other format? I can fit landscapes in 6x6, horizontal 35mm, vertical 35mm, 4"x5" and 5"x4". The compositions fit in 6x6 just fine thank you. Why would anyone want to needlessly stretch a landscape composition in to 6x7 or 6x9??

Alan Gales · Nov 21, 2014

I favor the 8x10, 4x5, and 6x7 formats myself but I also really enjoy shooting the square 6x6 images. For me the 6x6 is a little more challenging but it inspires my creativity. I have always felt the 35mm negative a bit too long even after many years of shooting it.

A very good friend of mine creates beautiful panorama landscapes with his Hasselblad Xpan.

We all see differently.

film_man · Nov 21, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
How can 6x6 be restrictive for landscape work?

What was the marketing line when Hasselblad made the XPan...?

Sirius Glass · Nov 21, 2014

film_man said:
What was the marketing line when Hasselblad made the XPan...?

"Square is the prefect format."

Richard Man · Nov 21, 2014

Ha ha, "For a World Less Square"

http://cn.hasselblad.com/media/3c8f1f64-b0af-4a98-b35e-0db6a220cfdb-XPan_English.pdf

Hasselblad Birthday Present

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