Hasselblad : 500C/M, 501, 503 or 202FA ? For a newbie ?

proenca · Dec 26, 2015

Soooo, I want to dip into Medium Format and I miss using film.

Now, my daughter is ... well, getting ready to come out ( wife is 8 months pregnant ) and I want to register her and the growing up on film.

Yes, I have used film before ( Canon's and Leica's ) but never MF.

Hasselblad its a itch I have to scratch - and now I have three cameras within my budget : 500/CM, 501 and 503CW. 503CW is the more expensive of the lot, but not that much.

Also my usual shop has a 500C at a killer price but :

- its a bit on the worn side
- lens that comes with it its a 150mm C ( non CF ) and its from the ice age and looks tatty
- on top of all this, can't replace the mirror so ...

its out.

They also have a very minty 202FA ( its new ) which I can pay with a bit more effort but :

- the meter its reassuring to someone who doesnt use a non metered camera in ages
- its a big price hike from the 503CW - I can get the 503CW with back, wlf, 150mm non CF lens for around 750 and the 202FA ( again, its new ) for 900 just with WLF - so I still have to buy the WLF ( 100 ) , back ( another 150 ) and a lens ( 150 CF goes for 450 ), so total would be 1600
- I've read alot, and 202FA has a bit of bad rap, being a "crippled" 203 - that is very out of my reach

So...

- its the 202FA worth it over the 503 ?
- I'm quite set on the 503Cw - full manual, can't go wrong , its in very good shape
- Is the 202FA meter life saving ? Or should I go with e 503 and if I miss the meter sooooo much get a PME45 metered prism and shut it ?

- I'd rather put the money ( of the 202FA vs 503 ) on lenses - lenses stay, bodies go. Although Hasselblad bodies seem to be like my Leica's : they will pretty much be ok for my grandchilden... and I'm not even 40...

I'm aware of the FE lens being the only solution to the 202FA and the 1/1000 vs 1/500 on the 500's...

Also a question - are the C lens crap ? 80mm should I look a CF and "up" or C are not to be dismissed at all ?

Have a bit of doubts here, please chime in - I'm a Hasselblad newbie, so feel free to share you thoughts !

Richard Man · Dec 26, 2015

When the kid starts to move, you will need the fastest autofocus with ISO 12800000000 to catch her.

MF would be impractical for that. OTOH, if you want more contemplative photos, yea, a Hassy would be so cool. Indoor you will have to use flash (yuck) or ISO 1600 films.

I have a 203FE, I will likely get a 202FA as a backup when I take the "long trip". If I were you, I'd start with a 501 and see how much you like it, then decide.

aoresteen · Dec 26, 2015

I have a very battered 500C. But it's in perfect factory specs and has a Maxwell screen installed. I love it. Easy to get serviced, still works great. Do not discount a 150mm C lens. They will surprise you. The only C lens I'd avoid is a non-T* 50mm Distagon. The rest are still worth using today.

My main cameras are a pair of Hasselblad 2000FC/M cameras. I'd avoid any focal plane shutter Hasselblad camera as they are hard to get serviced and lenses are much more limited and harder to find. If I were staring out fresh I'd get the 503 and call it a day.

Here's my page on the focal plane shutter Hasselblads:

http://www.oresteen.com/hasselbladfcameras.htm

Luis-F-S · Dec 26, 2015

DO NOT get a Hassy with a focal plane shutter. When the shutter breaks, they make a great paperweight. Hold out for a 500 C/M in good shape with an 80 and an A12 back. It should give you the most bang for the buck. Get one in good shape, not beat up and look at how dinged up the back of the C/M is where the magazine attaches to. It gets pretty dinged up from magazine changes and will give you an idea of use. DO NOT get a 150 as your first lens! You can get a 503, but it will cost more. Also, most of my lenses are C, not CF's, there's nothing wrong with them, I actually prefer the Compur to the Prontor shutter. If it's an older camera, figure on a CLA. DO NOT use the pre-release button on the side of the camera, it's the single largest cause of camera jams. L

HiHoSilver · Dec 26, 2015

I can't believe we haven't heard from Sirius.
I've not tried any blads other than the 500 c/ms. After CLA they've been really sweet. The 150 CF is good, though I really like the plain ol' 'C'. 'More straight-forward handling. If the image quality differs, I can't see it.
As for the pre-release - I use it most of the time. Maybe just fortunate, but no probs. so far.

Luis-F-S · Dec 26, 2015

HiHoSilver said:
As for the pre-release - I use it most of the time. Maybe just fortunate, but no probs. so far.

Give it time.................

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

Luis-F-S said:
DO NOT get a Hassy with a focal plane shutter. When the shutter breaks, they make a great paperweight. Hold out for a 500 C/M in good shape with an 80 and an A12 back. It should give you the most bang for the buck. Get one in good shape, not beat up and look at how dinged up the back of the C/M is where the magazine attaches to. It gets pretty dinged up from magazine changes and will give you an idea of use. DO NOT get a 150 as your first lens! You can get a 503, but it will cost more. Also, most of my lenses are C, not CF's, there's nothing wrong with them, I actually prefer the Compur to the Prontor shutter. If it's an older camera, figure on a CLA. DO NOT use the pre-release button on the side of the camera, it's the single largest cause of camera jams. L

I agree. I have the 503 CX which is the same as the 503 CW but it does not take the power winder. Who needs the power winder? And the CX is less than the CW.

snikulin · Dec 26, 2015

Try to rent first.

I seriously considered to buy a Hasselblad set few months ago but decided to rent it first at a nearby pro store (Keeble & Shuchat Photography in Palo Alto, CA, highly recommended).
The price was about $100 per Thanksgiving holidays+weekends (+Lowepro bag+80mm lens+WLF+PM+A12).
It was totally worth it: I have discovered that I prefer my Yashica TLR.
Don't get me wrong: Hasselblad 503cw is a really-really-really good machine.
But I felt it is too much in pro category and demands much more commitment than I am ready to invest into it.
So I scratched that itch and left it at that.

That's my two cents.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

snikulin said:
Try to rent first.

I seriously considered to buy a Hasselblad set few months ago but decided to rent it first at a nearby pro store (Keeble & Shuchat Photography in Palo Alto, CA, highly recommended).
The price was about $100 per Thanksgiving holidays+weekends.
It was totally worth it: I have discovered that I prefer my Yashica TLR.
Don't get me wrong: the "H" is a really-really-really good machine.
But I felt it is too much in pro category and demands much more commitment than I am ready to invest into it.
So I scratched that itch and left it at that.

That's my two cents.

You could have saved money and found a more suitable camera by renting a Series V Hasselblad instead.

snikulin · Dec 26, 2015

I rented 503cw.

"H" stands for Hasselblad (I was too lazy to type).

One more discovery: I preferred WLF and I practically did not use the prism finder.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

After using 35mm SLRs for decades the WLF drove me nuts with the left-right [right-left in the UK] reversal. Have never used the WLF on my Hasselblad, only the 45° PME.

snikulin · Dec 26, 2015

I was raised on 35mm too but, I guess, my later experience with digital point-and-shoot and iphones prepared me to WLF.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

My father liked TLRs and so it did not bother him. Then I introduced him to the Porroflex for his Mamiya C3 and he was hooked on prisms.

Alan Gales · Dec 27, 2015

Get the V series and buy as new as you can afford.

If your kid gets older and starts playing sports then pick up a DSLR for that but keep the Blad for portraits.

A few years ago my daughter was going to her senior prom so I took some photos of her and her boyfriend with a Nikon D300 and a Hasselbad 500/cm. On the computer screen one looked as sharp as the other but film just has that film look!

proenca · Dec 27, 2015

First of all, thank EVERYONE for the replies.

So, trying to clear things up, here is the current status of things :

- RENTING - not really an option. I live in Portugal, we do not have renting for older stuff - Hasselblad 5D's ? yup. H lens ? tons. V series ? Not really.
- 50mm non T* garbage ? oh bummer... I'll explain my buying options :

- 500C with 80mm
* killer price ( 400 euros )
* older lens ( its a silver one )
* can't change prism
* its complete with wlf and back
* its in decent shape

- 503CWwith 50mm
* still a very good price ( 600 euros )
* older lens, apparently not very good rep ( its a non T one )
* body and back are pristine
* everything - even the lens - its very good nick
* its the most recent, all mech, blad

- 202FA
* the most expensive thing here ( 900 euros )
* new, never used
* no back ( still have to be bought, around 120 euros )
* no wlf ( still have to be bouht, around 90 euros )
* no lens ( expect 300-500 euros for a 80mm )
* focal plane - hello 1/1000 and impossible repairs
* its spanking new

Other than this, fleabay. Plenty of options there. None with warranty. The usual gamble - and I prefer to mantain a healthy ( although not ot my wallet ) with my local photoshop.

film_man · Dec 27, 2015

A few comments from me. I have used the 501CM, 500ELX and H1.

First of all, when it comes to the 50x mechanical bodies I would get anything from a 500CM upwards depending on *condition*. A battered 503CW won't be better than a just serviced 500CM. Yes the CW will be 30 years younger but these things are made to be serviced and last for ever. Basically the differences are

503CW: takes winder and has bigger mirror, comes with latest screen
501CM: has bigger mirror, comes with latest screen.

Anything older than that is basically the same camera. The bigger mirror is useful if you want long lenses, otherwise it is irrelevant. The winder is also irrelevant. The latest screen, well you can buy one and add to whichever body you want (except the very old 500C which is why I'd avoid it) and even if you get a 503CW/501CM there is no guarantee that the previous owner hasn't swapped the screen with something else.

With regards to the 20x series bodies, I never used one but the advantages are that you get a higher top shutter speed and you can use the 110FE lens which costs more than a car nowadays. The minus is that they are more expensive and if they break then it will cost you to fix them *if* you can find someone to fix them in the first place.

Also, do not ignore the EL bodies. They come with a built-in winder, they are bigger and heavier but they are very cheap and I actually find them nicer to handle. With a prism you can keep shooting without having to take the camera down to wind it, you just fire and keep shooting. I'd get a 553ELX or 555ELD as they take normal AA batteries. You can find some 500ELX bodies that have also been converted to take AAs. I also like the electronic shutter release, it is easier to fire than the mechanical one.

Finally, for the price of a 503CW and certainly for less than a 20x body you can get a H1/H2 kit with a bit of searching. These are a completely different beast (645 vs 6x6!) but they have AF, they have the brightest finder you'll ever find and the standard lens will focus down to 0.7m (vs 0.9m on the 500) which does actually make quite a bit of difference when you are shooting kids. Personally I never got on with the H1 hence why I got rid of it but the output is amazing and the convenience features of auto winder, metering and AF are fantastic. The AF is actually very good (ok not as good like dSLRs or the latest 35mm AF cameras but still it is accurate and fast).

PS

For lenses, I would personally not bother with anything older than CF. The reason is ergonomics as I dislike the C/CT style, the focus ring is metal and combined with the heavy focusing it really hurts your fingers if you try to focus fast. Also the coupled aperture/shutter rings are a pain (try it in the shop, with a C/CT lens if you change the aperture the shutter speed changes too to keep exposure the same whereas CF and newer lenses work as you would expect them). If you don't mind the above the black CT* lenses (they have a red T* on the front) are basically the same as the CF lenses so you won't miss anything.

proenca · Dec 27, 2015

Thank you so much for your in depth reply.

H1 is a no-no from the start - first because I want to try the 6x6 format and the 6x4,5 doesnt appeal to me.

Also, because in my "photo stable" I have other cameras regarding AF - I have a Nikon D3 for example, so when my daughter starts running, got plenty of AF to track her down

So the Hasselblad would be for candids and... well, for that itch that I need to scratch

proenca · Dec 27, 2015

Also, if I go the fleabay route, I 'm pondering the 553/555 - they are an absolute STEAL and mint or like new examples can be had for next to nothing.

I can get a 80mm CF lens pretty much new for 450 euros, A12 back for 120 euros and 555 body with wlf like new for 180 or so... so that means a killer setup, for 700 euros or so.. multiple vendors, multiple ways for something to go wrong, hence why I'm trying to avoid it.

Today a new posting on my local used sell site ( Portuguese Craigslist/Gumtree ) showed up, a nice minty 500CM with 80mm CF lens for 1050 ... Trying to bargain the price down oh the fun of the hunt is on

sagai · Dec 27, 2015

Richard Man said:
When the kid starts to move, you will need the fastest autofocus with ISO 12800000000 to catch her.

MF would be impractical for that. OTOH, if you want more contemplative photos, yea, a Hassy would be so cool. Indoor you will have to use flash (yuck) or ISO 1600 films.

I have a 203FE, I will likely get a 202FA as a backup when I take the "long trip". If I were you, I'd start with a 501 and see how much you like it, then decide.

+1 [emoji106]

Ashfaque · Dec 27, 2015

That 503CW is a very good bargain! I'd get it without any 2nd thought. If you didn't like it, sell it later to me.

Bests,
Ashfaque

RobC · Dec 27, 2015

some brief research and I found:

202FA Based on 203FE with some features removed
+ center-weighted automatic exposure
+ can only use its own focal-plane shutter
- cannot use C lenses at all
- cannot use leaf-shutters in CF/CFe lenses
- top shutter speed of 1/1000 sec.
- voted "Most Disliked Camera" in the 200 series

Also that 1/1000 shutter speed doesn't look so clever when you know that the flash sync speed on the focal plane shutter is only 1/90 and indoors you are likely to need some flash.

I'd get the 503CW with its much faster flash sync speeds according to lens maximum shutter speed. i.e. 1/500 or thereabouts.
There's also consderation of batteries, availability of lenses, maintenance etc which will all be cheaper on a 500 series camera I think.

film_man · Dec 27, 2015

Ok so you typed your options while I was typing my answer so didn't see. Here's my opinion:

GET THE 503CW NOW!!! 600 euros is nothing, you would pay that much for the body or body and back at best, let alone having a lens to go with it! I would just not bother with the 500C given this. I would also be very wary of buying the 200 body as it has never been used. This means it has been sitting on a shelf for at least 10 years, as such will probably need a service out of the box.

Sirius Glass · Dec 27, 2015

Alan Gales said:
Get the V series and buy as new as you can afford.

If your kid gets older and starts playing sports then pick up a DSLR for that but keep the Blad for portraits.

Actually a Hasselblad can be used for sports photographs. They have been for years.

Sirius Glass · Dec 27, 2015

proenca said:
- 503CWwith 50mm
* still a very good price ( 600 euros )
* older lens, apparently not very good rep ( its a non T one )
* body and back are pristine
* everything - even the lens - its very good nick
* its the most recent, all mech, blad

That is the best choice. I have the CX which is the same without the motor wind ability. The 50mm lens is great as a wide angles. Pick up the 80mm lens when you can. I used the 50mm and 80mm lens traveling in Europe and rarely missed the rest that I left at home. The fact that it is all mechanical is great.

Sirius Glass · Dec 27, 2015

film_man said:
A few comments from me. I have used the 501CM, 500ELX and H1.

First of all, when it comes to the 50x mechanical bodies I would get anything from a 500CM upwards depending on *condition*. A battered 503CW won't be better than a just serviced 500CM. Yes the CW will be 30 years younger but these things are made to be serviced and last for ever. Basically the differences are

503CW: takes winder and has bigger mirror, comes with latest screen
501CM: has bigger mirror, comes with latest screen.

Anything older than that is basically the same camera. The bigger mirror is useful if you want long lenses, otherwise it is irrelevant. The winder is also irrelevant. The latest screen, well you can buy one and add to whichever body you want (except the very old 500C which is why I'd avoid it) and even if you get a 503CW/501CM there is no guarantee that the previous owner hasn't swapped the screen with something else.

With regards to the 20x series bodies, I never used one but the advantages are that you get a higher top shutter speed and you can use the 110FE lens which costs more than a car nowadays. The minus is that they are more expensive and if they break then it will cost you to fix them *if* you can find someone to fix them in the first place.

Also, do not ignore the EL bodies. They come with a built-in winder, they are bigger and heavier but they are very cheap and I actually find them nicer to handle. With a prism you can keep shooting without having to take the camera down to wind it, you just fire and keep shooting. I'd get a 553ELX or 555ELD as they take normal AA batteries. You can find some 500ELX bodies that have also been converted to take AAs. I also like the electronic shutter release, it is easier to fire than the mechanical one.

Finally, for the price of a 503CW and certainly for less than a 20x body you can get a H1/H2 kit with a bit of searching. These are a completely different beast (645 vs 6x6!) but they have AF, they have the brightest finder you'll ever find and the standard lens will focus down to 0.7m (vs 0.9m on the 500) which does actually make quite a bit of difference when you are shooting kids. Personally I never got on with the H1 hence why I got rid of it but the output is amazing and the convenience features of auto winder, metering and AF are fantastic. The AF is actually very good (ok not as good like dSLRs or the latest 35mm AF cameras but still it is accurate and fast).

PS

For lenses, I would personally not bother with anything older than CF. The reason is ergonomics as I dislike the C/CT style, the focus ring is metal and combined with the heavy focusing it really hurts your fingers if you try to focus fast. Also the coupled aperture/shutter rings are a pain (try it in the shop, with a C/CT lens if you change the aperture the shutter speed changes too to keep exposure the same whereas CF and newer lenses work as you would expect them). If you don't mind the above the black CT* lenses (they have a red T* on the front) are basically the same as the CF lenses so you won't miss anything.

+ 1

I stick to CF lenses. One set of B60 filters will fit almost every CF lens.

Hasselblad : 500C/M, 501, 503 or 202FA ? For a newbie ?

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