Hasselblad 250mm Superachromat? Worth it?

Early Riser · Nov 23, 2017

I'm considering buying the Hasselblad 250mm superachromat. Is it worth it? My alternative is to use the 270mm nikkor-t adapted to work on the Blad. I've done a test of the nikkor and it's quite good, better than the 180mm Zeiss with the 1.4xe, a combo that I know is better than the regular 250mm zeiss.
Also the nikkor copal 1 shutter is virtually vibrationless whereas the Hasselblad shutters always seem a little clunky.

Any one have any real experience with the Superachromat?

Sirius Glass · Nov 26, 2017

I have never handled one. I have the CF 250mm lens and I am happy with the performance. Do you have a need for the better optics or is this a situation where you have the money available and would like to have one? I could afford one, but I do not see the need. That said I really like my two most recent lenses the 100mm CF and the 500mm C. I do not really need the 500mm but the price was too good to pass up and I like using the 2XE with it for wildlife photography.

Early Riser · Nov 27, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
I have never handled one. I have the CF 250mm lens and I am happy with the performance. Do you have a need for the better optics or is this a situation where you have the money available and would like to have one? I could afford one, but I do not see the need. That said I really like my two most recent lenses the 100mm CF and the 500mm C. I do not really need the 500mm but the price was too good to pass up and I like using the 2XE with it for wildlife photography.

My work tends to print large, I need to be able to produce a print at least as large as 40"- 50" from a 6x6 cm negative. That's an 18 to 22x enlargement. That's pushing it for any 6x6cm camera optic so only the very best glass need apply. For the Blad I have the 100mm and 180mm lenses, Hasselblad's two best. And sometime ago I tested the 180mm with the 1.4xe versus the regular 250mm Sonnar and the 180 combo was better. But for the print size I need it's just not as good as I'd like. The superachromat is impossible to rent and I don't know anyone who has one, but I do know it has a great reputation but that's not quite enough before I drop $3k or more for a used lens.

BTW I also use the Mamiya 7II and it's lenses can print as large as 50- 60" but with the mamiya there's a huge gap between the 80mm and 150mm, and it's longest lens in 210mm. The purpose of the hasselblad is to fill the gaps.

Kodachromeguy · Nov 27, 2017

Hello Early, how did you get the Nikkor T adapted to use on your Hasselblad? Are you using a bellows or a set of extension tubes? And did you need any custom machined adapter rings? I am intrigued by this idea.

ruilourosa · Nov 27, 2017

I think just because of the name of the lens is totally worth it!!!
Superachromat is not even multicoated, it´s a lens that is corrected beyond visible spectrum but not really that usefull for pictorial photography,

Sirius Glass · Nov 27, 2017

ruilourosa said:
I think just because of the name of the lens is totally worth it!!!
Superachromat is not even multicoated, it´s a lens that is corrected beyond visible spectrum but not really that usefull for pictorial photography,

I agree. Otherwise I might have considered buying one.

Ai Print · Nov 27, 2017

Hi Brian,

I have not had a chance to try it but a few people have ( including Ming Thein ) and it is said to be a better lens in terms of correction with no discernible CA. Both the 250 and 350 SA lenses were designed with high quality slide films in mind and have translated very well to D-backs. I have the 350 CF and it is just OK for black and white or my 50MP D-back, would love to have the 350SA but $7,000-$10,000 for it is just not a good investment to me and I also wonder if the 250 SA might not be the better bet for me too. Also, the info that is it not multi-coated is not right, the CFe version is for sure.

Other sources here say there is a day and night difference between the 250 Sonnar and 250 SA as the SA are amongst the very few MF lenses to hit the diffraction limit of white light 250 lp/mm @ ƒ/5,6.

This is the problem with these lenses though, not too much in the way of beta and no way to rent them.

Early Riser · Nov 27, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
Hello Early, how did you get the Nikkor T adapted to use on your Hasselblad? Are you using a bellows or a set of extension tubes? And did you need any custom machined adapter rings? I am intrigued by this idea.

I haven't adapted it yet. The plan is to use a hasselblad variable extension tube as the focus helicoid. and then have made a tube with a copal 1 hole on one end that attaches to the extension tube.

Early Riser · Nov 27, 2017

Ai Print said:
Hi Brian,

I have not had a chance to try it but a few people have ( including Ming Thein ) and it is said to be a better lens in terms of correction with no discernible CA. Both the 250 and 350 SA lenses were designed with high quality slide films in mind and have translated very well to D-backs. I have the 350 CF and it is just OK for black and white or my 50MP D-back, would love to have the 350SA but $7,000-$10,000 for it is just not a good investment to me and I also wonder if the 250 SA might not be the better bet for me too. Also, the info that is it not multi-coated is not right, the CFe version is for sure.

Other sources here say there is a day and night difference between the 250 Sonnar and 250 SA as the SA are amongst the very few MF lenses to hit the diffraction limit of white light 250 lp/mm @ ƒ/5,6.

This is the problem with these lenses though, not too much in the way of beta and no way to rent them.

From what I have been reading the SA is an extraordinary lens, but requires very exact focus and film flatness and if either is off it's actually lower rez than the plain 250mm. Given the cost and it's low tolerance for the slightest error I may go with the 270mm Nikkor-T

Kodachromeguy · Nov 27, 2017

Early Riser said:
I haven't adapted it yet. The plan is to use a hasselblad variable extension tube as the focus helicoid. and then have made a tube with a copal 1 hole on one end that attaches to the extension tube.

Fabulous B&W samples on your web page. How did you make the tube with the Copal 1 opening? Does one end have a bayonet mount to attack to the Hasselblad variable extension tube? Thanks!

etn · Nov 28, 2017

Early Riser said:
before I drop $3k or more for a used lens.

$3k seem a lot to me. Here in Europe you can find good CF samples for under 2000 euros.
I found one recently for less than that in very good condition here in Munich. As a matter of fact there is one currently listed on ebay Germany for 1700€. If you find a good sample for that price you can always sell it later without losing any money if you don’t like it.

I haven’t processed the roll I shot with mine, so I cannot comment on the lens yet. I’ll probably not be able to do it before the Xmas break. I also want to try it with color slide film. Stay tuned.

ruilourosa · Nov 28, 2017

all the information i have is that super achromats are not multicoated, it does not mean they are not coated. Procedure wise: fine grain, high resolution film, solid tripod, MLU, high acutance developer, glass negative carrier and aligned enlarger, high quality enlarger lens, short viewing distance. Maybe you get a few more lines per inch with superachromat!!!! by the way: that is the thing to photograph!!!!

cluncky and hasselblad shutter are antagonic things...

i have 38, 50, 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 250, and swc, 500, 501 and 553 and i use them... they are all fine, the best, regarding their age (all cf or cfe)

guangong · Nov 28, 2017

Early Riser said:
I haven't adapted it yet. The plan is to use a hasselblad variable extension tube as the focus helicoid. and then have made a tube with a copal 1 hole on one end that attaches to the extension tube.

I have adapted Zeiss and Leitz lenses to my Hasselblad 2000FCM using a Hasselblad lens mounting block appropriately machined. I used these plus Kilfit in days when genuine Hasselblad lenses were beyond my reach. Some Kilfit lenses require the use of a Kilfit adapter called a wihi, of which my friend and I have two each, which could be half the production of this adapter.
Much Zeiss production is for highly specialized scientific work.

Early Riser · Nov 28, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
Fabulous B&W samples on your web page. How did you make the tube with the Copal 1 opening? Does one end have a bayonet mount to attack to the Hasselblad variable extension tube? Thanks!

Thanks. I haven't had the tube made yet, will have SK Grimes make it for me. I already have the Hasselblad variable lens extender which has a very smooth, very solid helicoid so the focus will feel just like on a regular Hasselblad lens. Then I bought one of those hasselblad/65mm lens adapter ring on ebay, and the plan is to have Grimes make a 65mm tube that screws into the adapter ring that has the copal 1 hole on the other end. I may have them make a second tube that allows my 180mm Fuji SF lens to work on there as well.

Eric Rose · Nov 28, 2017

Maybe the OP should consider using a cine lens.

Sirius Glass · Nov 28, 2017

Early Riser said:
Thanks. I haven't had the tube made yet, will have SK Grimes make it for me. I already have the Hasselblad variable lens extender which has a very smooth, very solid helicoid so the focus will feel just like on a regular Hasselblad lens. Then I bought one of those hasselblad/65mm lens adapter ring on ebay, and the plan is to have Grimes make a 65mm tube that screws into the adapter ring that has the copal 1 hole on the other end. I may have them make a second tube that allows my 180mm Fuji SF lens to work on there as well.

The Hasselblad variable lens extender are very hard to find. I hope that your project does not damage it.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 28, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
I have never handled one. I have the CF 250mm lens and I am happy with the performance. Do you have a need for the better optics or is this a situation where you have the money available and would like to have one? I could afford one, but I do not see the need. That said I really like my two most recent lenses the 100mm CF and the 500mm C. I do not really need the 500mm but the price was too good to pass up and I like using the 2XE with it for wildlife photography.

+1

Kodachromeguy · Nov 28, 2017

Early Riser said:
Thanks. I haven't had the tube made yet, will have SK Grimes make it for me. I already have the Hasselblad variable lens extender which has a very smooth, very solid helicoid so the focus will feel just like on a regular Hasselblad lens. Then I bought one of those hasselblad/65mm lens adapter ring on ebay, and the plan is to have Grimes make a 65mm tube that screws into the adapter ring that has the copal 1 hole on the other end. I may have them make a second tube that allows my 180mm Fuji SF lens to work on there as well.

Another option: on eBay, some vendors in China offer Hasselblad mount variable tubes with 52mm or 65mm on the threaded size:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_...ount+Camera+Focusing+Helicoid+Adapter+45+95mm

If you could get a blank cap with a 52mm or 65mm thread, then all you need to do is have a shop cut an appropriate hole for Copal 0 or Copal 1, and you may be able to easily adapt a large format lens. I have a 135mm Xenar with a M39 thread. I wonder if there is a M39-52mm ring?

Early Riser · Nov 29, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
Another option: on eBay, some vendors in China offer Hasselblad mount variable tubes with 52mm or 65mm on the threaded size:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_...ount+Camera+Focusing+Helicoid+Adapter+45+95mm

If you could get a blank cap with a 52mm or 65mm thread, then all you need to do is have a shop cut an appropriate hole for Copal 0 or Copal 1, and you may be able to easily adapt a large format lens. I have a 135mm Xenar with a M39 thread. I wonder if there is a M39-52mm ring?

I'll need them to make a tube, as the 270mm nikkor-t requires about 187mm of flange focal distance. On the end of that tube, And the total length of that tube might be comprised of two tubes so that I could potentially use it with two different lenses of different flange focal lengths, and then there''d be a removable round lens board. What I'd basically make is what's known as a "top hat" lens extender for lens boards, but instead of the lensborad it would have a hasselblad mount that attaches to the variable lens extender which acts as a helicoid for focusing.

Richard Man · Nov 29, 2017

A craftsperson in Hong Kong made an adapter that let me use my two 1920's Cooke on the Hasselblad 203FE. As the shutter is in the body, quite painless to use!

Chris Livsey · Nov 29, 2017

On the coating Zeiss say: The Sonnar® Superachromat 5.6/250 CFE lens is not Carl Zeiss T* coated, the Carl Zeiss T-coating used with the Sonnar® Superachromat 5.6/250 CFE lens provides higher transmission of infrared light.

You may find Page 16 here of interest pointing out some of the limitations of the lens which may, or may not, affect your decision, as you primarily shoot "infinity" the closer focus performance may not be of interest.
That DAC corrections are used on the later HC glass in particular is a regret to those of us shooting film on the H series.
http://static.hasselblad.com/2015/02/the_evolution_of_lenses.pdf

Sirius Glass · Nov 29, 2017

While the SA lenses provide optics for wavelengths that the eye cannot see for scientific work, I would need to filter those wavelengths out so that the film would not have haze and fog. Except for IR photographs, I do not want to have those artifacts in my prints and slides.

Hasselblad 250mm Superachromat? Worth it?

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